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Author Topic: Onslaught is laughably bad  (Read 10940 times)

ocd

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Onslaught is laughably bad
« on: November 19, 2024, 06:58:57 AM »

This thing has always been trash tier in terms of performance though it does have the cool factor of many guns, too bad they spend the battle endlessly spinning and chasing everything on the field instead of actually shooting their guns at good targets, what's more is how often they're out classed by much cheaper ships. Onslaught can barley 1v1 a Radiant but Dominator, Aurora, Fury, Afflictor, Doom can all do this with very little issue and they are all cheaper.

I've tried just about every meta build that's been posted and it's consistently worse than a Prometheus MK 2, Odyssey, Conquest, It can't chase the things it can kill and is outpaced by phase skimmer, Dominator will catch and kill that fleeing Radiant without having to push it to the top. Dominator will also kill Brilliants and Novas quicker. So it can't kill smaller ships in reasonable time and can barley fight Radiants despite smaller ships managing it and it's distracted by ships that can't even scratch the paint and don't have the firepower to turn its engine off.

Give it an Eliminate order with an Aggressive pilot and watch it ignore that order to endlessly swing its TPCs trying to shoot frigates that are harassing this is what I mean by laughably bad. As a player you literally ignore those frigates and they will die to autofiring PD and crossing your main guns you can't tell the AI to ignore which is a massive oversight. So there it goes endlessly spinning.

Give it an Escort and watch the Escort block its guns and then retreat path leaving the Onslaught, you guessed it spinning in confusion.

Missiles, 4 Med missile mounts, let's spend 40OP on reapers, 30 more to EMR, and we've spent 70 points for missles that get dodged, eaten by PD, or lobbed at max range at a frigate. What a deal that is, so leave them empty, oh now it's been given an Eliminate order up north but it's heading south chasing a frigate even though my other frigates are also chasing their frigates. The AI has too much option, it must be lobotomized, the Onslaught is literally built to point at target, press F, hold click and WIN but it cannot do it, I don't know why it can't do it. I can do it. You can do it, AI simple cannot do it.

Anyway it was entertaining watching how awful this ship still is compared to the rest of the Capitals, as for fixing it idk double it's range remove the TPCs maybe it will be half as good as a Dominator. Until then its back to the Conquest and Oddy combo, speed + range = win by default.

An anagram for Onslaught is Tons Laugh as in I laughed tons at just how poor the ship is.
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2024, 10:28:12 AM »

This thing has always been trash tier in terms of performance though it does have the cool factor of many guns, too bad they spend the battle endlessly spinning and chasing everything on the field instead of actually shooting their guns at good targets, what's more is how often they're out classed by much cheaper ships. Onslaught can barley 1v1 a Radiant but Dominator, Aurora, Fury, Afflictor, Doom can all do this with very little issue and they are all cheaper.

I've tried just about every meta build that's been posted and it's consistently worse than a Prometheus MK 2, Odyssey, Conquest, It can't chase the things it can kill and is outpaced by phase skimmer, Dominator will catch and kill that fleeing Radiant without having to push it to the top. Dominator will also kill Brilliants and Novas quicker. So it can't kill smaller ships in reasonable time and can barley fight Radiants despite smaller ships managing it and it's distracted by ships that can't even scratch the paint and don't have the firepower to turn its engine off.

Give it an Eliminate order with an Aggressive pilot and watch it ignore that order to endlessly swing its TPCs trying to shoot frigates that are harassing this is what I mean by laughably bad. As a player you literally ignore those frigates and they will die to autofiring PD and crossing your main guns you can't tell the AI to ignore which is a massive oversight. So there it goes endlessly spinning.

Give it an Escort and watch the Escort block its guns and then retreat path leaving the Onslaught, you guessed it spinning in confusion.

Missiles, 4 Med missile mounts, let's spend 40OP on reapers, 30 more to EMR, and we've spent 70 points for missles that get dodged, eaten by PD, or lobbed at max range at a frigate. What a deal that is, so leave them empty, oh now it's been given an Eliminate order up north but it's heading south chasing a frigate even though my other frigates are also chasing their frigates. The AI has too much option, it must be lobotomized, the Onslaught is literally built to point at target, press F, hold click and WIN but it cannot do it, I don't know why it can't do it. I can do it. You can do it, AI simple cannot do it.

Anyway it was entertaining watching how awful this ship still is compared to the rest of the Capitals, as for fixing it idk double it's range remove the TPCs maybe it will be half as good as a Dominator. Until then its back to the Conquest and Oddy combo, speed + range = win by default.

An anagram for Onslaught is Tons Laugh as in I laughed tons at just how poor the ship is.
This might be trolling, but I'll take the bait if it is.

First claim, it's a battleline ship, meaning you need to set up a point for it to stick around with supporting ships and let the enemy come to it.

Second claim, Radiant is 60 OP and is one of the most OP ships in the game, while Onslaught is 40. Of the ships you listed only Doom can truly 1v1 a Radiant thanks to its system. Aurora and Afflicter can chip it down over a long period of time thanks to their high mobility. The Dominator and absolutely the Fury cannot 1v1 a Radiant. I'm pretty sure even with SO the Fury still loses.

Third claim its somehow worse than the Prometheus MK 2, Odyssey, Conquest. Odyssey is well known for being a bit weak outside of player piloting. Conquest has most directional firepower but way less survivability meaning it pairs well will the Onslaught but can't fill the Onslaught's role. Prometheus MK 2 just re-affirms that you're probably trolling. It's an interesting ship but bad ship overall. It has nearly the same stats as the Dominator with notably having 20 more speed and a weaker shield. While its mounts are good it doesn't even remotely have the flux capacity to support them as it has less dissipation than the Dominator.

Fourth claim. It's not supposed to chase things see first claim.

Fifth claim, that why you keep it at a single point with supporting ships, that way it doesn't get distracted by frigates.

Sixth claim, escorts will stay out of the escorted ships firing line. The only exception is if they are escorting a different ship, or they are too slow to get out of the way.

Seventh, so load those mounts with anything other than Reapers. The most common missiles for those mounts are Pilums, Harpoons, or Proximity Charge Launchers.

Eighth, eliminate orders will move the ship towards the target, but will not always face the ship towards the target.

Ninth, really? Double its range? So, 120% range bonus is what you're suggesting, i.e. more than the Paragon. You're trolling.
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Mishrak

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2024, 10:47:59 AM »

Beat me to it Pixi. 

Onslaught has consistently been the best capital in the game, version after version, outside of maybe player piloted Radiant.

If anything it needs to have it's DP increased a bit to bring it in line a bit more with other capitals.

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Spyro

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2024, 10:59:44 AM »

OP is actually a genius, they 100% wanted to get tips and guides on how to make best Onslaught builds. And the fastest way to do it is by posting something as extreme as this. The internet is super predictable after all.
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Princess of Evil

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2024, 11:36:31 PM »

It's the StackOverflow strat of posting the incorrect answer.
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Siffrin

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2024, 01:15:08 AM »

OP is actually a genius, they 100% wanted to get tips and guides on how to make best Onslaught builds. And the fastest way to do it is by posting something as extreme as this. The internet is super predictable after all.
You don't ask questions on the internet, you post wrong information and wait for the horde of people to come and correct you.  ;D
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ocd

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2024, 03:37:46 AM »

You're sleeping on the Dominator, seriously, it bullies Radiants with ease.

I will concede that if you go all Onslaught and don't pilot a ship and then issue an order every 1 minute and use the console to outfit them and reload the battle many times it will eventually do something impressive but in a standard iron man game where you also want to pilot none of that happens.
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FunnyScope

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2024, 04:24:17 AM »

You're sleeping on the Dominator, seriously, it bullies Radiants with ease.
Could be true, as I've never tested it, but I doubt it.
I will concede that if you go all Onslaught and don't pilot a ship and then issue an order every 1 minute and use the console to outfit them and reload the battle many times it will eventually do something impressive but in a standard iron man game where you also want to pilot none of that happens.
Onslaught works just fine for me, regardless of if I'm piloting or if I'm giving it to an officer. I don't have to use the console to outfit them, generally using the same loadout against all enemy fleets, and reloading generally isn't required unless I don't want to get any D-mods on any ship - and the Onslaught doesn't tend to be the one receiving them. It's very survivable and has a strong weapons loadout. If you don't want to engage with the tactical map mode a lot, just put some escort orders down at the start of the battle and chill. You can perform pretty well that way with a Low Tech fleet, although it isn't optimal and you will probably need more to do big Ordo battles. And the micro managing you have to do to "optimise" Low Tech isn't that bad, I'd say a Midline fleet is worse in that regard, requiring more attention.
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ocd

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2024, 05:25:43 AM »

You're sleeping on the Dominator, seriously, it bullies Radiants with ease.
Could be true, as I've never tested it, but I doubt it.
I will concede that if you go all Onslaught and don't pilot a ship and then issue an order every 1 minute and use the console to outfit them and reload the battle many times it will eventually do something impressive but in a standard iron man game where you also want to pilot none of that happens.
Onslaught works just fine for me, regardless of if I'm piloting or if I'm giving it to an officer. I don't have to use the console to outfit them, generally using the same loadout against all enemy fleets, and reloading generally isn't required unless I don't want to get any D-mods on any ship - and the Onslaught doesn't tend to be the one receiving them. It's very survivable and has a strong weapons loadout. If you don't want to engage with the tactical map mode a lot, just put some escort orders down at the start of the battle and chill. You can perform pretty well that way with a Low Tech fleet, although it isn't optimal and you will probably need more to do big Ordo battles. And the micro managing you have to do to "optimise" Low Tech isn't that bad, I'd say a Midline fleet is worse in that regard, requiring more attention.

Go outfit a Dominator and watch it do a better job at what the Onslaught is supposed to do for a much cheaper cost, a Capital being "just fine" is a waste of officers and dp tbh. I rarely give my Odyssey or Conquest orders they just do their thing. Have to escort the Onslaught personally because AI cannot escort without blocking it's guns constantly. So it's a Capital that needs constant instruction as shown in those videos and it also makes you escort it limiting the flagship because it's stuck on escort duty rather than just killing things quickly.
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Mishrak

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2024, 06:46:32 AM »

The impression I get is that you don't really know what you're doing with it.

Doesn't make it a bad ship.
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ocd

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2024, 07:02:22 AM »

The impression I get is that you don't really know what you're doing with it.

Doesn't make it a bad ship.

I'm fine with it actually it's the AI that doesn't have a clue how to pilot any of these ships. You need to give the AI the dumbest builds possible to make it sort of work but without speed it just gets mobbed since you're always outnumbered in end game. So if they AI cannot fly it even with the "best" meta builds then it's trash tier. I don't have this issue with any other Capitals so yeah must be me and not this 1 ship. Which is why the Prometheus Mk2 beats it, it has that forward LMissile so it just infact drive at target, delete target, Onslaught just spins in the back late always late to the party. Got to give it literally busted weapons to get okay performance. Hmmm great ship. I love watching it raise shields against small arms fire. I love it ignoring high value targets to chase cannon fodder. That's what makes it a bad ship. Worst in the game per DP by a wide margin

You can see it in those videos, the AI is barley flying those ships it's requiring command after command after command, and let's not pretend it's only in over the top battles, every fight you drag this heap of trash along with you will require constant direction to make it do anything. HOW is that a good ship? I don't have to micro the rest of my fleet they just work. Think you've drunk the koolaid tbh maybe try off meta stuff to see what actually works
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 07:25:59 AM by ocd »
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Mishrak

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2024, 07:28:35 AM »

The AI isn't designed to just be "set and forget".  You're supposed to manage it if you're running fleet/officer skills.  I'm not really sure what you're expecting.

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ocd

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Re: Onslaught is laughably bad
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2024, 07:43:16 AM »

The AI isn't designed to just be "set and forget".  You're supposed to manage it if you're running fleet/officer skills.  I'm not really sure what you're expecting.

That a fact? Good job the game doesn't limit how many orders you can give then isn't it since this is some RTS hybrid and not it fact a 2D space shooter. I don't mind giving a couple orders per battle here and there but to be constantly in and out of tab just to make sure the ship actually does something? If this was in fact a 2D space shooter then that would be a terrible ship but eh it's RTS so I guess the ship is fine actually.

I'm expecting Capital levels of use out of it like all the other ships I've listed provide but it consistently under performs against ships half its price. Btw Oddy, Conquest, Prom Mk2, 1 set of orders at the beggining then maybe 1 more as you make a charge I would call that set and forget.
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