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[chandl34]

For long battles, some ships get stranded with critical CR, and you have to wait for the enemy to find and kill them.  It would be useful to be able to blow up your own ships when they hit critical CR, so that you can recover DP quicker, so you can send in reinforcements.

[Fenrir]

It's generally better if you retreat the ship before it hits dead 0

[chandl34]

I'm trying to do massive battles against 4-5 Ordo groups.  With how intense the fight is, there isn't time to get someone to a map edge.

[Doctorhealsgood]

I'm trying to do massive battles against 4-5 Ordo groups.  With how intense the fight is, there isn't time to get someone to a map edge.

why not?

[PixiCode]

It's generally better if you retreat the ship before it hits dead 0

It’s absolutely better, yeah, and unlike was said by chandi, it is totally possible and feasible to get a ship from where you’re fighting to the retreat edge. Even against 4-5 ordos, the enemy ai only ever can deploy as much DP as you can deploy, so if you’re unable to get a ship to the edge that’s on you the player not the game.

That doesn’t mean there isn’t room for a mechanic that helps someone who isn’t optimizing their control or fleet too much.

Personally I’d prefer if the battlemap just treats the ship as gone once it reaches 0 CR for DP counting. Self destructing a ship in the middle of combat feels very out of character for the sort of story vanilla has going for it.

Honestly this is partially fixed already by the mechanic of allowing you to do a full retreat, then re-engage.

[chandl34]

I'm trying to do massive battles against 4-5 Ordo groups.  With how intense the fight is, there isn't time to get someone to a map edge.

why not?

The entire fleet runs out of CR if there isn't constant fighting.  These fights are going 25+ minutes.

This normally pushes us to the top of the map, at the enemy spawn point.  The must vulnerable parts of the fight are when bringing up reinforcements.  It takes a long time to get back to the top of the map, but it's 2x the wait if you have to also retreat from that position.  Sending the entire fleet back for safety wastes a lot of valuable CR for the whole fleet.  Low CR ships are also useful to an extent, because they can still be used to tank.

I can intentionally sac a ship if I have to, to speed things up.  But that's not much different than allowing self-destruct.

[PixiCode]

I'm trying to do massive battles against 4-5 Ordo groups.  With how intense the fight is, there isn't time to get someone to a map edge.

why not?

The entire fleet runs out of CR if there isn't constant fighting.  These fights are going 25+ minutes.

This normally pushes us to the top of the map, at the enemy spawn point.  The must vulnerable parts of the fight are when bringing up reinforcements.  It takes a long time to get back to the top of the map, but it's 2x the wait if you have to also retreat from that position.  Sending the entire fleet back for safety wastes a lot of valuable CR for the whole fleet.  Low CR ships are also useful to an extent, because they can still be used to tank.

I can intentionally sac a ship if I have to, to speed things up.  But that's not much different than allowing self-destruct.

I mean this politely, but it sounds like you need a better fleet. Or, make use of the retreat and re-engage function.

[chandl34]

I mean this politely, but it sounds like you need a better fleet. Or, make use of the retreat and re-engage function.

Yeah, I'm trying to see how far I can go with only fast ships and one capital (Radiant).  I could retreat and re-engage, but I'm trying to get the huge fights all in one shot on purpose.

[TK3600]

Why not just make malfunctioned ship cost 0DP and let you reinforce right away? Not like they need any space for com and supplies. They are effectively disconnected from the comm.

[PixiCode]

Yeah, I'm trying to see how far I can go with only fast ships and one capital (Radiant).  I could retreat and re-engage, but I'm trying to get the huge fights all in one shot on purpose.

To repeat before I discuss, not against the idea of having 0 CR ships cost 0 DP, but I’m just trying to think through if it’s necessary as is right now for your situation.

Though the retreat and re-engage feature treats it as just 1 battle as far as exp, salvage etc goes, doesn’t it? Just to be clear, I’m talking about how after you do a retreat in a battle you have two options, Re-engage or attempt to disengage (and if you killed enough before retreat, you get to cleanly disengage).

Anyways, I imagine the radiant has the most ppt - shouldn’t your other fast ships be able to retreat pretty quickly? I was imagining like you had some slow/average speed ships that needed to retreat, such as sunders or manticores or something. Fast ships should be able to retreat pretty reliably fast and allow for about as fast (or faster, depending on where it was before retreating) as allowing the ship to reach 0 cr and wait for it to explode.

Also, you could maybe achieve what you’re looking for by giving low CR ships Search and Destroy orders once they’re like ~35% CR. That should make them generally much more risky in behavior, maximizing both their impact on the battle and their chances of exploding! It’s like a tactical self destruct.

[chandl34]

The main ships to get swapped out are Auroras, Eagles, and Herons.  There are also frigates, but those don't have as much of an impact.

These are all fast ships, but the extra ~20 seconds to retreat might as well be a lifetime while the Radiant is trying to handle about 160 DP of enemy ships at the top of the map.  Sac'ing is usually going to be the best option to get this done quickly.

[Bungee_man]

I think it'd be reasonable to have an option to immediately leave the battle and abandon remaining ships after full retreat has been called, if the remaining ships have zero percent CR, by clicking on full retreat a second time. That said, I'm not sure that situation comes up especially often in normal gameplay.

[Megas]

It would be nice to have a way to end the battle when both sides have 0% CR and enemy cannot or does not want to retreat, and you cannot because your ships are broken too.

[SCC]

Personally I’d prefer if the battlemap just treats the ship as gone once it reaches 0 CR for DP counting. Self destructing a ship in the middle of combat feels very out of character for the sort of story vanilla has going for it.

I think this would be the best solution. A ship with no CR left is basically a sitting duck. If you get defeated by one, or a fleet of them, that's on you. Otherwise, the best they can do is try to retreat. Most likely slowly, which makes swapping them out for a fresh ship annoying.

[Megas]

Personally I’d prefer if the battlemap just treats the ship as gone once it reaches 0 CR for DP counting. Self destructing a ship in the middle of combat feels very out of character for the sort of story vanilla has going for it.

I think this would be the best solution. A ship with no CR left is basically a sitting duck. If you get defeated by one, or a fleet of them, that's on you. Otherwise, the best they can do is try to retreat. Most likely slowly, which makes swapping them out for a fresh ship annoying.

Force the ship to power down and turn grey as if disabled, but without the big flash or fiery explosion that normally happens when killing a ship.  Could have most of the online weapons and engines critical malfunction as the zero CR ship drifts toward hibernation.  Basically, a non-standard death.