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Author Topic: Big game hunting  (Read 4490 times)

chandl34

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Big game hunting
« on: August 22, 2024, 06:01:17 PM »

I'm replaying Starsector after a 3-year hiatus.  My goal for this run was to make a fleet that was better at killing large Ordo groups, without making it boring (fast-paced, without capital ship spam).  I've put together one than can consistently beat groups of two and sometimes groups of three. 

Just got my biggest win yet against 80 ships with 1268 DP, lasting almost 23 minutes.

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This fight pushed the fleet to its limits on CR.  My first Aurora was about 30 CR when I traded it for my backup Aurora.  We lost a few support ships during the transition.  The Radiant had to desperately kill the final enemy Radiant with only 5 CR left.  It hit zero right after.  I handled the rest of the cleanup with only 50 CR left and a Tempest.

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Most fights start with me running the Radiant and my Aurora, each with their own Eagle and Heron support.  Also, two Hyperions capture early points and three Monitors tank.  The remaining fleet is a mix of Tempests and Omens, with an extra Aurora, Eagle, and Heron as backups.

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Here is the character sheet.  I'd love to fit in Combat Endurance or Hardened Subsystems on my main ships, but I don't think there's room for it.

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I found that Disintegrators are decent on AI-controlled Hyperions.  They were consistently doing better than Mining Blasters.
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chandl34

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2024, 09:26:14 PM »

I was able to make significant improvements to the fleet, and was able to win against 1534 DP of Ordo with my 368 DP of combat ships.  It was 20 more ships, but ended 1.5 minutes earlier than the previous battle.

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Changes:
- Replaced an Omen with a Monitor
- Moved Radiant's Reality Disruptor to the center hardpoint, and moved the Autopulse Laser to the center turret
- Replaced Radiant's Resistant Flux Conduits with Hardened Subsystems
- Replaced all Eagles' ballistics with Heavy Needlers and Heavy Mortars
- Replaced all Tempests' Ion Beams with Pulse Lasers
- Hired two mercenary officers for the Herons with elite Missile Specialization
- Hired three more mercenary officers for the new Monitor and two of the Tempests
- Replaced one of my officers with the insane legendary below

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« Last Edit: August 25, 2024, 09:35:52 PM by chandl34 »
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PixiCode

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2024, 12:02:38 AM »

Wow I was just thinking ‘you know if he’s fighting remnant, that’s one of the few moments heavy needler eagle is solid’ and bam, you got it! I liked seeing that evolution.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2024, 06:44:01 PM by PixiCode »
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Sandor057

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2024, 01:49:38 AM »

Looking good. Quite the investment in the fleet, but results are results.

Just curious how much the Monitors contribute in all this taking fire instead of the others. I guess the main limiting factor here is PPT.

Also, as you are using omega weapons on Herons (never would have thought of it tbf, always sticking pilums on them), wouldn't it possibly work better with Moras? Or is it speed over brawn?
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chandl34

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2024, 08:22:24 AM »

Unfortunately, the damage the Monitors take gets cut out of the battle results, but the fights would be impossible without them.  Remnant cruisers and capitals need to be held off until the Radiant or my Aurora can get to them.  I would probably get better results replacing all the Omens with Monitors, because I usually run out near the end of the fights.

PPT on the Radiant is the most important factor.  Hardened Subsystems made a huge difference, allowing me to go from three groups of Ordo to four.  It may be worth it to add to the Auroras, Eagles, and Herons too.

Low CR isn't always what kills us though.  Early in the fights, I'm mostly fighting frigates and destroyers.  At the end, it's all cruiser and capital spam.  If there aren't enough distractions left at that point, it's easy to get overwhelmed.

I didn't have a place for the extra Resonator MRMs, so they went on two of the Herons.  It's works well with elite Missile Specialization.  I could try Moras, but I don't think they'd be able to keep up.  There are a lot of times when I have to charge out of position.  I tried with the Legion XIV a few times, and it didn't go well.

That third Heron uses an HVD instead.  All the other duplicate ships are identical.

Omega weapons in storage:
- 3 Rift Torpedo Launchers
- 1 Rift Cascade Emitter
- 5 Rift Beams
- 2 Cryoflamers
- 7 Minipulsers
- 3 Shock Repeaters
- 1 Rift Lance

Haven't found a use for these.  An old version of the fleet had two Champions with Rift Torpedo Launchers.  The Radiant used to have four Minipulsers instead of its four Rift Lances.  I thought the Expanded Magazines s-mod would make the Minipulsers good, but they always underperformed in the battle results, and the Radiant's DPS was too low.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2024, 09:41:33 AM by chandl34 »
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chandl34

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2024, 10:56:49 AM »

Forgot to include the Hyperion build in my original post:

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They aren't as impactful as I remember them being 3 years ago, but they are great at capturing early points.  Due to the way the AI uses Hyperions, the Disintegrator damage gets spread around, but they don't get a lot of kills on their own.
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chandl34

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2024, 09:31:44 PM »

Managed to get a few bigger fights with 1550 and 1578.  The 1578 fight actually seemed easy, and I still had three Monitors, my Aurora, and the Radiant left, with most of our CR remaining.  With how well that went, we should be able to get to 1700 with our 368.

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Changes:
- Replaced all Omens with Monitors (now totaling seven)
- Gave all Monitors Hardened Subsystems
- Replaced Auroras' Resistant Flux Conduits with Expanded Magazines
- Started sending in all my civilian ships at the end of the fight to distract the remaining enemies

The Expanded Magazines are probably not an improvement.  This boosts the Minipulser, Ion Pulser, and Mining Blaster, but the fighting is so constant, it's unlikely the guns fully charge often.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2024, 09:33:37 PM by chandl34 »
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Sandor057

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2024, 05:32:57 AM »

Nice increase in effectiveness.

Without Expanded Magazines being S-modded I wonder if adding them is actually improving anything instead of being a bit detrimental to the overall performance. According to what you wrote, I'm guessing Auroras just have enough time to retreat for a bit of a breather between clashes. If so, I don't think their magazines ever fill up or are in danger of getting to the maximum amount of shots. S-modding them would be a different case altogether as increased regeneration rate directly translates to increased DPS (and flux use, but that shouldn't be a problem).

About officers and skills, I am counting 8 standard officers, + 2 mercs for the Herons, +3 mercs for Monitors, +2 mercs for Tempests, so in total 15 officers not counting the player. As PPT is an important factor, wouldn't ditching Coordinated Maneuvers and taking Wolfpack Tactics help with that for the frigate officers, especially Monitors for later parts of the battles?
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Bungee_man

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2024, 06:32:37 AM »

Do the Herons really pull their weight, here? The Remnants are pretty PD-heavy, and relatively fast. It seems like attrition would take them down to near-uselessness pretty fast, unless they were very well-managed.
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chandl34

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2024, 07:53:51 AM »

I have made more Auroras, so I can test s-modded Expanded Magazines.  First though, I've added Hardened Subsystems to all ships and removed Expanded Magazines from the Auroras.

The officer count is now up to 20.  I'm trying to fill out every combat ship, except my backup Aurora. 

Wolfpack Tactics may be worth considering.  Monitors usually die when their CR gets low.  However, the speed difference is noticeable.  Even going my regular top speed of 175, I have a hard time chasing and retreating from some Ordo.  I'll try that after the next fight.

The Herons usually do about as well as the Eagles for damage.  They do require more babysitting though.  I usually have a Monitor at the back, so that they don't get killed.  Here's an example of damage results:

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Rusty Edge

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2024, 07:56:22 AM »

Carriers seem like an odd choice for the mercenaries, the only skills that really affect their performance are combat endurance, systems expertise and Elite PD in certain cases. Wouldn't the mercs be better used in ships that can take advantage of their additional skills?
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chandl34

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2024, 08:00:01 AM »

All ships are going to get officers, but I mainly wanted elite Missile Specialization on two of the Herons, because they have Resonator MRMs.
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chandl34

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2024, 08:16:33 AM »

Another good thing about the carriers, is they don't get in the way.  The fights are set up with my Aurora and the Radiant both getting their own Eagle and Heron support.  If I traded the Herons for more Eagles, they would probably just get in the way.  If I let the extra ships be independent, they'd probably stray from the group and get picked off.

The Monitors can kite groups of enemies and the Tempests can kite individual Apexes.  If I pull these away from the fighting, this makes handling reinforcements easier.
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SCC

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2024, 12:06:39 PM »

Could you send me your save? I want to see how much of a difference piloting the Radiant would make in your fleet. My 2 Radiant, 1 Paragon, 1 Onslaught, 2 Afflictor fleet could chew through 2000 DP of Remnants in approximately 1100 seconds.
I have it recorded, in case you are curious how it performed
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chandl34

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Re: Big game hunting
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2024, 12:31:04 PM »

Sure.  The main colony is in Ulubis (gate).  You can find more ships in its storage.  The nearest Ordo fight locations are in nearby gate systems, Xophiel and Tered Kathon.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kdv5yckpl0qp4fld1udlw/save_Munson_8570343067104722736.zip?rlkey=ksjzk9vbycyoafazhoijqfsq6&st=rsgackoi&dl=0
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