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Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

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Author Topic: [0.98a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework  (Read 234705 times)

vagabond1

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #90 on: August 16, 2024, 02:23:09 AM »

same. came here to say this.

Also, thank you for the mod update!
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Lukas04

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #91 on: August 16, 2024, 04:12:52 AM »

Fixed the issue with them displaying wrongly, also added the configuration for disabling the feature where it gives you "inaccesible" abilities right at the start.
https://github.com/Lukas22041/SecondInCommand/releases/tag/1.1.1
« Last Edit: August 16, 2024, 04:15:19 AM by Lukas04 »
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SpaceDrake

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #92 on: August 16, 2024, 04:17:14 AM »

God fuggin' bless, Lukas. Thank you for getting on this so quickly.
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Killsode

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #93 on: August 16, 2024, 04:19:45 PM »

Been giving a save with this mod a go. I quite enjoy the broad possibility of buffs and build variety, as well as the idea of being able to swap around my build 'on the fly'.
But there is some feedback i can give, and an ability from vanilla skills that i think has been overlooked. I've Played 1.0.6, but i've double checked a fresh 1.1.1 save to make sure things are still relevant.

1. Managing unassigned XO's is a little fiddly. You cant dismiss or rename an unassigned XO if you have an XO of the same type or catagory unless you enter the management menu from that XO's type or catagory. XO's are also only listed in order of acquisition, which makes managing a bunch of them a little tricky, as they'll be almost randomly mixed up together. And you may want to have a bunch of them for mixing up your builds. Fixing the former should(?) be as simple as allowing you to select a conflicting unassigned XO but just greying out the confirm button. For the latter, the list could be automatically sorted by officer type and then by name alphabetically? Some kind of specific ordering there other than order of acquisition would be nice i think.

2. Respecing XO skills? I know they're based off ship Officers and you cant respec their skills willy nilly, only their elites. And since you can get more and duplicate XO's you can just spec out a different officer differently. But being able to spend a story point to respec an XO's skill selection would make varying and trying out new builds much nicer, especially since leveling one to 5(6?) takes a while. I believe it took me until player level 10 before one of my XO's was max level? And i had XP gain rate set to 1.25. If i wanted to try out the other capstone skill for a different build i would need to aquire and level up a brand new XO all the way.

3. Hull Restoration and ship recovery. its not properly listed in Hull Restoration but it actually improves universal ship recovery rates. For the most part it seems to make any storypoint recovery a normal recovery. Although it doesnt reduce the D-mod rate for recovered enemy ships. I've tested this by nuking a 300 point hegemony fleet over again with different vanilla skill combinations. But as far as i'm aware, XO skills dont do that (unless generic "post battle salvage" does it?), which makes recovering new ships quite difficult.

4. Continuous Repairs and D-mod removal. I havent used it just yet, but i'm not sure about the 300 DP per hullmod removed. That aforementioned 300 point hegemony fleet had a little under 400 DP worth of ships in it all up. That would have removed one D-mod from one ship, likely a frigate or destroyer i lost in that very battle. In that situation its more of just a D-mod rebate. But taking many engagements into account, removing D-mods turns into a game of slogging through trash fleets. I am not quite sure whether or not that is effective enough its good, or just barely effective enough its a slog. Encouraging farming unengaging and easy combat for that seems... Not great? If it ends up being a slog, it may actually be worse than AFKing to remove d-mods. But as i said, i havent used it just yet so i'm sure.

5. This is just my own taste in power level, but i am ravenous for a fourth XO slot. Having a logistical XO is basically required on the campaign map, but they do basically nothing in combat. Leaving in practice only two slots for XO's that do anything in combat. And only two slots is juuust slightly too few. Sure, currently i could replace that logistics XO with a combat XO, but i'll be honest i am not leaving my home system without a logistics XO. Campaign level movement speed is just too good of a quality of life improvement to give up.
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Lukas04

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #94 on: August 16, 2024, 05:12:09 PM »

Been giving a save with this mod a go. I quite enjoy the broad possibility of buffs and build variety, as well as the idea of being able to swap around my build 'on the fly'.
But there is some feedback i can give, and an ability from vanilla skills that i think has been overlooked. I've Played 1.0.6, but i've double checked a fresh 1.1.1 save to make sure things are still relevant.

1. Managing unassigned XO's is a little fiddly. You cant dismiss or rename an unassigned XO if you have an XO of the same type or catagory unless you enter the management menu from that XO's type or catagory. XO's are also only listed in order of acquisition, which makes managing a bunch of them a little tricky, as they'll be almost randomly mixed up together. And you may want to have a bunch of them for mixing up your builds. Fixing the former should(?) be as simple as allowing you to select a conflicting unassigned XO but just greying out the confirm button. For the latter, the list could be automatically sorted by officer type and then by name alphabetically? Some kind of specific ordering there other than order of acquisition would be nice i think.

2. Respecing XO skills? I know they're based off ship Officers and you cant respec their skills willy nilly, only their elites. And since you can get more and duplicate XO's you can just spec out a different officer differently. But being able to spend a story point to respec an XO's skill selection would make varying and trying out new builds much nicer, especially since leveling one to 5(6?) takes a while. I believe it took me until player level 10 before one of my XO's was max level? And i had XP gain rate set to 1.25. If i wanted to try out the other capstone skill for a different build i would need to aquire and level up a brand new XO all the way.

3. Hull Restoration and ship recovery. its not properly listed in Hull Restoration but it actually improves universal ship recovery rates. For the most part it seems to make any storypoint recovery a normal recovery. Although it doesnt reduce the D-mod rate for recovered enemy ships. I've tested this by nuking a 300 point hegemony fleet over again with different vanilla skill combinations. But as far as i'm aware, XO skills dont do that (unless generic "post battle salvage" does it?), which makes recovering new ships quite difficult.

4. Continuous Repairs and D-mod removal. I havent used it just yet, but i'm not sure about the 300 DP per hullmod removed. That aforementioned 300 point hegemony fleet had a little under 400 DP worth of ships in it all up. That would have removed one D-mod from one ship, likely a frigate or destroyer i lost in that very battle. In that situation its more of just a D-mod rebate. But taking many engagements into account, removing D-mods turns into a game of slogging through trash fleets. I am not quite sure whether or not that is effective enough its good, or just barely effective enough its a slog. Encouraging farming unengaging and easy combat for that seems... Not great? If it ends up being a slog, it may actually be worse than AFKing to remove d-mods. But as i said, i havent used it just yet so i'm sure.

5. This is just my own taste in power level, but i am ravenous for a fourth XO slot. Having a logistical XO is basically required on the campaign map, but they do basically nothing in combat. Leaving in practice only two slots for XO's that do anything in combat. And only two slots is juuust slightly too few. Sure, currently i could replace that logistics XO with a combat XO, but i'll be honest i am not leaving my home system without a logistics XO. Campaign level movement speed is just too good of a quality of life improvement to give up.

1.
Something i need to improve later, wanted to make it a bit better but the ability to dismiss itself came a bit later, and needs some more UI rewrites to be more easy to use. Also in 1.1.0 XOs are now sorted by Aptitude.

2.
I prefer to keep it at requiring dupes to spec differently. Also the next version gives a few XP multipliers to Executive officers as the player themself leve up.

3.
The ship recovery chance thing has been split off in to the "Recovery Efforts" skill.

4.
In 1.1.0 the skill also now provides a 50% chance to avoid new d-mods, which should balance out how many new dmods you gain from encounters.

5.
Wont change, im rather adament about it. Slots being "too few" is what the system should make you feel like. If you wanna use a 3rd more combat orientated Aptitude you will need to compensate that with the fleet build itself. Logistical Aptitudes have an effect on combat by making it easier to build out your fleet, even if the connection doesnt feel as direct. 
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Lukas04

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #95 on: August 16, 2024, 06:23:04 PM »

Alright, one more update for today here:
https://github.com/Lukas22041/SecondInCommand/releases/tag/1.1.2

You now gain certain officer related stats (i.e Max amount of officers) on level up instead.
As such Officer Training and Officer Management have received new effects instead.
They may change later on again, as i am not totally convinced from what they are now, but i wanted some placeholder to exist atleast.



On that note, im going to take a bit of a break from working on Second-in-Command for atleast a few weeks.
I have worked on it a lot in the last six weeks and both the work itself, and keeping up with discussions is getting quite tiring, so aside from hotfixes i probably wont do much for a bit, il also likely reply to fewer posts on here for a bit aswell. 

Been very happy with the response to the mod overall! But still, it is also just a bit much, so hope thats understandable.
With its 9 aptitudes now i think the mod is also in good enough of a condition to just leave it as it is for a bit.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2024, 06:24:39 PM by Lukas04 »
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AdamLegend

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #96 on: August 16, 2024, 07:07:13 PM »

Thanks for the update. Please take a well-deserved break. Gonna explore the massive amount of content in this mod in the meantime :)
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #97 on: August 17, 2024, 05:25:31 AM »

This is a very cool mod.

Overpowered, but very cool.
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The one who drives

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2024, 11:34:34 AM »

As a neural shard stan I am quite intruiged by this mod. On one had this makes it a lot more usefull since you'll propably have only 2-3 skills that effect the ship you're piloting but on the other had... -3 officer cap? In this economy?
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The one who drives

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2024, 12:09:19 PM »

Wait no not -3! Halved! How did I mess that up?
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PreConceptor

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #100 on: August 17, 2024, 12:24:19 PM »

Smol suggestion if I may: It seems the last 'must always have' effect of Leadership that is still present in the Management aptitude is Best of the Best's +1 Smod effect, which also happens to be a real PITA to manage if you ever want to swap Management out. It may be an idea to move that +1 effect to the automatic player level unlocks, maybe push the other unlocks down a level and put it at Lvl14? No clue what effect could replace it in the skill though.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2024, 09:28:46 PM by PreConceptor »
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The one who drives

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #101 on: August 17, 2024, 12:37:19 PM »

Wait no not -3! Halved! How did I mess that up?

Ok nvm I'm dumb executive officers are diffrent.

....

NEURAL SHARD SWEEP BABY!!!!!!!!
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #102 on: August 18, 2024, 12:36:25 PM »

Hi Lukas,

I am enjoying this mod a lot. Very cool. However there are a few pacing issues I want to point out with Hull Restoration, Support Doctrine and (less so) Derelict Operations.

In vanilla, Hull Restoration and Support Doctrine are strong skills in the early-to-midgame. You can rush them at level 5, and HR saves you a lot of money as you're building up your fleet and SD makes you much stronger before you have your officers collected and leveled up. In the late game, both of these skills are weak.

In this mod, it takes forever to get an XO up to level 5 and therefore you don't get access to SD and HR until well past the midgame. At that point, I have so much money that HR is pretty useless (I will have paid to clean up D-mods way before) and I'm not losing enough ships to need HR's continuous restoration. Same with SD, by the time I unlock it in the tree I already have my officers, which are much more powerful than SD.

Derelict Operations is not quite as much of an issue since it remains strong in the endgame, and you added good skills to support a junker style early on.

My request: move HR and SD earlier up in the skill tree. Maybe not accessible at level 1-2, but certainly at 3-4. Level 5 is too long of a wait with how slow XO xp gain is.

The purple tree is otherwise quite nice in the early game.
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Keybindet

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #103 on: August 18, 2024, 02:39:30 PM »

You can modify amount of xp your xo gets with lunalib.
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HandfulStroker

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Re: [0.97a] Second-in-Command | A full-scale skill system rework
« Reply #104 on: August 18, 2024, 07:23:00 PM »

Reporting bug.

After getting my fleet destroyed I realized the skill "Ambush" no longer applied when I went dark. I think it has something to do with "Affects: Fleet" thingamabob, 1+ max burn boost skill also didn't apply, so there may be many skills that'll be null'ied if deadified.

version 1.1.2 btw
« Last Edit: August 18, 2024, 07:43:00 PM by HandfulStroker »
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