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[Ragnarok101]

I don't entirely agree. The Pathers also pick a fight with other factions that are way stronger than them, at least ostensibly so. They're terrorists, fighting for what they believe is right. It definitely makes sense for them to put a lot on the line to try to eliminate a new faction that is (ab)using domain-era tech. But it also makes sense that, while disruptive to their efforts, their defeat in the crisis doesn't permanently protect your colonies. Their holy war just doesn't stop, and it will always attract new recruits. It'd take a concerted effort by the sector, or maybe some conclusive ending to the troubled condition of the sector as a whole, to stop it, I think. But I do think the reward could stand to be a bit better than it currently is.
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I agree it's more the Hegemony's kind of thing, but isn't the Hegemony supposed to still be recovering from the back-to-back disasters of the Askonia crisis and the second AI war? It doesn't make sense for them to send an expansionist expedition. Enforcing the ban on AI is an altogether different matter though, being much more core to the Hegemony, their history, identity, etc. (and politically important as well).
As for it not being in-character for the Persean League, well, during the Galatia missions (specifically At The Gates) you go to Kazeron to talk to Horus Yaribay. You can ask him a couple of questions, including one/a few on the political state of the League. During this dialogue Horus explains the views of the gens of Kazeron, including gens Hannan and their imperialistic stance. Guess who's currently in control of the Persean League: Reynard Hannan.
IIRC, the imperialistic nature of the League also pops up in some other places, e.g. one of the main menu missions. And it also makes sense: Kazeron is the biggest world in the league that's actually stable (Mazalot really isn't), it's its only world with heavy industry, one of the founding members of the League, and so on, which gives it a lot of influence. If there's anyone currently able and willing to expand like this, it's the League (especially with the Hegemony not in position to counterbalance them).
Although the current reward for beating the blockade makes sense, it could really stand to be better if you don't want to join the League, imo. And maybe the event should also be a bit easier, considering all of the complaints about it, but the whole idea of the crisis definitely isn't something I'm against.

P.S.: Just looked this up, but according to A True and Accurate History of the Persean Sector, the Second AI war ended in cycle 194, so with 12 years between it and game start that might have been enough? It would work better for my reasoning if it isn't though lol

The Pathers are terrorists, yes - but they've repeatedly demonstrated that they're clever about it. They don't throw away lives pointlessly and there needs to be a way to make them stop that isn't just 'give them a nuke to *** off'.

The Perseans could arguably be imperialistic but 10-14 fleets being yeeted at a couple of colonies is wildly disproportionate. When you're sending more people out to fight than exist in the colony of civilians you're trying to subdue, you're doing it wrong.

[Phenir]

The Perseans could arguably be imperialistic but 10-14 fleets being yeeted at a couple of colonies is wildly disproportionate. When you're sending more people out to fight than exist in the colony of civilians you're trying to subdue, you're doing it wrong.

That sounds exactly what you should do. Send out enough forces to force a surrender without bloodshed or destroyed industry. Not that they actually do this though.
Firstly, they aren't subduing your colonies, they are blockading them. So they need enough fleets to cover all exits and probably watch any planets because of transverse jump (npcs never use this technique but I assume they'd know it's possible eventually story wise). It'd require fewer fleets to just hang out in hyperspace but that's probably really expensive because of fuel.
Secondly, the number of people isn't a concern. 10 fleets is probably like 30-40k people. One size 4 colony can have more people than that so it's very possible you outnumber them even with their massive armada. Plus Kazeron is size 7. It has way more than enough people to throw away for this by itself. Like, this armada is <.1% of their population.

[FunnyScope]

The Pathers are terrorists, yes - but they've repeatedly demonstrated that they're clever about it. They don't throw away lives pointlessly and there needs to be a way to make them stop that isn't just 'give them a nuke to *** off'.

Well, after they try to satbomb you, they do just treat you like any other faction - if you use too many technologies, they will do terror attacks. Just like they treat the Heg, Tri-Tach, etc. But they don't try to satbomb your world again, because, as you said, they're clever about it, and they realise it'd be a waste to throw another fleet like that at you. As for not treating you like the other factions anymore, that is, not having any pather cells, that either requires you to stop doing the things they hate or make them give up their holy war against you, betraying their principles. How do you get them to do that? What's the price? A PK, apparently.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

Secondly, the number of people isn't a concern. 10 fleets is probably like 30-40k people. One size 4 colony can have more people than that so it's very possible you outnumber them even with their massive armada. Plus Kazeron is size 7. It has way more than enough people to throw away for this by itself. Like, this armada is <.1% of their population.

30-40k of Navy specialists. That is an entire Navy generation potentially thrown down the drain for a backwater system of nobodies.
Assuming they only have 10 fleets, they tend to have more like 14, and each fleet only has one Pegasus, again they can have more, that's 4,000,000 credits in Pegasus hulls alone, not including the entire fleet. Then you need weapons to arm them, which tend to be comically expensive because DEMs are cool. The resources in supply, fuel, crew costs, and Officer costs. As well as the political capital to make sure everyone is on the same page.
At the end of it, the PLs blockade easily extends into high tens of millions of credits, possibly even making it to 100 million.

They don't have those funds, the Heg doesn't even have those funds.

This is all ignoring the fact that it's pointless to have that many fleets as the player, again, for possibly the tenth time, cannot fight that many all at once as the mercy rule kicks in. So, lore wise it makes no sense as they can't afford it, and they have no reason to throw that much money at a largely irrelevant problem. Gameplay wise it doesn't make sense as the player can't fight them all without modding their game to negate the mercy rule.

Edit DEM not DRM.

[Phenir]

Secondly, the number of people isn't a concern. 10 fleets is probably like 30-40k people. One size 4 colony can have more people than that so it's very possible you outnumber them even with their massive armada. Plus Kazeron is size 7. It has way more than enough people to throw away for this by itself. Like, this armada is <.1% of their population.

30-40k of Navy specialists. That is an entire Navy generation potentially thrown down the drain for a backwater system of nobodies.

Nothing a quick stop by Chalcedon couldn't solve. Apparently, they are brimming with "navy specialists" so much they almost pay you to get them off the planet.

Assuming they only have 10 fleets, they tend to have more like 14

Wow so add another 10-20k, still within the realm of a size 4 colony.

and each fleet only has one Pegasus, again they can have more, that's 4,000,000 credits in Pegasus hulls alone, not including the entire fleet. Then you need weapons to arm them, which tend to be comically expensive because DRMs are cool. The resources in supply, fuel, crew costs, and Officer costs. As well as the political capital to make sure everyone is on the same page.
At the end of it, the PLs blockade easily extends into high tens of millions of credits, possibly even making it to 100 million.

This is all ignoring the fact that it's pointless to have that many fleets as the player, again, for possibly the tenth time, cannot fight that many all at once as the mercy rule kicks in. So, lore wise it makes no sense as they can't afford it, and they have no reason to throw that much money at a largely irrelevant problem. Gameplay wise it doesn't make sense as the player can't fight them all without modding their game to negate the mercy rule.

None of this is relevant to the population involved. However, I think you are overestimating how much the fleets cost by about 40%, they would need to field like 150 pegasus to hit 100m including logistics costs. The mercy rule thing doesn't matter, you're still gonna get jumped by the other fleets if you survive the first battle. Not that you need to fight them anyway since you only need to beat 1 or 2 fleets.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

Nothing a quick stop by Chalcedon couldn't solve. Apparently, they are brimming with "navy specialists" so much they almost pay you to get them off the planet.

The League wouldn't trust their ships to Pathers. We shouldn't either but we do for gameplay convenience. The LP put ill-advised modifications on everything. Meaning no, lore wise neither us nor the League could just pick up Pathers and have everything go fine even if they were working honestly.

None of this is relevant to the population involved. However, I think you are overestimating how much the fleets cost by about 40%, they would need to field like 150 pegasus to hit 100m including logistics costs. The mercy rule thing doesn't matter, you're still gonna get jumped by the other fleets if you survive the first battle. Not that you need to fight them anyway since you only need to beat 1 or 2 fleets.

I'm factoring in the extreme cost of the officer spam that they take along. Officers may be cheap to hire but training them is expensive. As well as the political bribing that is required to amass such a fleet. Kazeron alone couldn't do it, meaning they had to convince the other members.
Keep in mind the PL blockade can range from 10-17 fleets, at least 17 is the maximum I've seen so far.

The Mercy rule matters as the challenge is to fight everything at once. Missiles fully reload once a battle has ended, regardless of how fast the next battle is. That being said, they won't jump you as they just return home once the main fleet is defeated. They may decide to attack you, but I've done this a few times and they tend to just go home. Which makes sense as the player will have just killed over 2,000DP of their ships.

There's also the issue that Kazeron is supplying all the hulls. They don't have that much production, even if they have the money. This could be gotten around by having TT and independents produce a couple TT and Ind fleets for them, but they don't, it's 100% PL.
Likewise, they won't have a decent stockpile to be throwing around as the Second AI war, which they lost, was only 12 years ago, I think.

[Ragnarok101]

Well, after they try to satbomb you, they do just treat you like any other faction - if you use too many technologies, they will do terror attacks. Just like they treat the Heg, Tri-Tach, etc. But they don't try to satbomb your world again, because, as you said, they're clever about it, and they realise it'd be a waste to throw another fleet like that at you. As for not treating you like the other factions anymore, that is, not having any pather cells, that either requires you to stop doing the things they hate or make them give up their holy war against you, betraying their principles. How do you get them to do that? What's the price? A PK, apparently.

The terror attacks I understand, but isn't their crisis and incrementing of the meter something that inevitably leads to them sending yet another fleet to their deaths? Or did that get changed?

Nothing a quick stop by Chalcedon couldn't solve. Apparently, they are brimming with "navy specialists" so much they almost pay you to get them off the planet.

'in game' logic should not be used to justify worldbuilding, because the worldbuilding is stuff like 'single battleships define the course of wars' and 'no you can't just *** satbomb Chicomozitoc out of existence'.

There's also the issue that Kazeron is supplying all the hulls. They don't have that much production, even if they have the money. This could be gotten around by having TT and independents produce a couple TT and Ind fleets for them, but they don't, it's 100% PL.
Likewise, they won't have a decent stockpile to be throwing around as the Second AI war, which they lost, was only 12 years ago, I think.

The Persean League did not take part in the second AI war in any significant effort - which is honestly kinda funny given that they're the major counterweight to the Hegemony with the second-largest orbital works and a very large chunk of the non-Chico sector population. Most of the fighting appears to have been between the Hegs and Tri-Tach directly, though it's entirely possible the PL forces were either providing free ships and crew or otherwise making a mess for the Heg.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

The Persean League did not take part in the second AI war in any significant effort - which is honestly kinda funny given that they're the major counterweight to the Hegemony with the second-largest orbital works and a very large chunk of the non-Chico sector population. Most of the fighting appears to have been between the Hegs and Tri-Tach directly, though it's entirely possible the PL forces were either providing free ships and crew or otherwise making a mess for the Heg.

You are correct the PL never directly fought against Heg.
"As before, the Luddic Church tended to back the Hegemony while the Persean League tended to back Tri-Tachyon, though neither openly or enthusiastically."
The Church backing the Heg is basically a thumbs up as they just don't have the industry capacity. The PL backing TT means ships, fuel, supplies, and possibly officers.

[Phenir]

Nothing a quick stop by Chalcedon couldn't solve. Apparently, they are brimming with "navy specialists" so much they almost pay you to get them off the planet.

'in game' logic should not be used to justify worldbuilding, because the worldbuilding is stuff like 'single battleships define the course of wars' and 'no you can't just *** satbomb Chicomozitoc out of existence'.

Right, so arguing from a lore standpoint is useless. Glad you could pick up the gameplay and story disconnect and hopefully such a thing won't get brought up again as a point against the PL crisis. Like the number of fleets being unfeasible from a lore standpoint. "In lore" they'd probably send just a couple fleets but that wouldn't be very threatening from a gameplay perspective now would it? One planet's station + patrols could fend that off. If they even sent fleets to the backwater colonies of the sector. Problem is this is a game, so sometimes lore and wordbuilding and story take a backseat so the player can actually have a fun, challenging, and/or interesting time.
Not to mention if they sent such a small force, that'd be even less personnel than the colonies they are targeting, like you were complaining before, so...

Nothing a quick stop by Chalcedon couldn't solve. Apparently, they are brimming with "navy specialists" so much they almost pay you to get them off the planet.

The League wouldn't trust their ships to Pathers. We shouldn't either but we do for gameplay convenience. The LP put ill-advised modifications on everything. Meaning no, lore wise neither us nor the League could just pick up Pathers and have everything go fine even if they were working honestly.

The point was that "navy specialists" are not exactly rare if even pathers, literally anti tech terrorists, can have enough to make their own fleets.

None of this is relevant to the population involved. However, I think you are overestimating how much the fleets cost by about 40%, they would need to field like 150 pegasus to hit 100m including logistics costs. The mercy rule thing doesn't matter, you're still gonna get jumped by the other fleets if you survive the first battle. Not that you need to fight them anyway since you only need to beat 1 or 2 fleets.

I'm factoring in the extreme cost of the officer spam that they take along. Officers may be cheap to hire but training them is expensive. As well as the political bribing that is required to amass such a fleet. Kazeron alone couldn't do it, meaning they had to convince the other members.
Keep in mind the PL blockade can range from 10-17 fleets, at least 17 is the maximum I've seen so far.

You need to stop mixing lore and gameplay points.

The Mercy rule matters as the challenge is to fight everything at once.

No, it isn't. If it were, you'd have to beat all the fleets. But you don't, you only have to beat the grand armada or the supply fleets.

[Ragnarok101]

Right, so arguing from a lore standpoint is useless. Glad you could pick up the gameplay and story disconnect and hopefully such a thing won't get brought up again as a point against the PL crisis. Like the number of fleets being unfeasible from a lore standpoint. "In lore" they'd probably send just a couple fleets but that wouldn't be very threatening from a gameplay perspective now would it? One planet's station + patrols could fend that off. If they even sent fleets to the backwater colonies of the sector. Problem is this is a game, so sometimes lore and wordbuilding and story take a backseat so the player can actually have a fun, challenging, and/or interesting time.
Not to mention if they sent such a small force, that'd be even less personnel than the colonies they are targeting, like you were complaining before, so...

It's still wildly disproportionate to what gets sent against you in pretty much every other crisis and fleet.

From a gameplay standpoint, it messes with suspension of disbelief. These jokers can send this massive fleet to harass you and mess around with your colonies, but they don't have a fraction of that to do things like keep Kazeron from being satbombed? When one of the methods for ending the crisis is to attack them and steal their nanoforge directly, it raises really annoying questions.

A few fleets getting thrown in is fine. It's just really darn weird to see 10-17 of them showing up when they can't use a fraction of that for their main world.

If Alex wants to make a challenge bigger than multiple capship fleets (3-4 at a time), he can set up an actual war where that many ships getting thrown into the fray makes sense.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

The point was that "navy specialists" are not exactly rare if even pathers, literally anti tech terrorists, can have enough to make their own fleets.

Thier fleets are crap and are sourced from anyone that joins. The PL's aren't, and are sourced entirely from the PL, which is mostly from member states and not from random captains that join.

You need to stop mixing lore and gameplay points.

The two are intertwined. Some discrepancies between lore and gameplay are okay, and others ignorable (sat bombing). However, when something breaks both the lore and visible gameplay mechanics and forces you to deal with it, then it becomes a problem for suspension of disbelief and "fairness". Us getting punished for sat bombing but the other factions not getting in trouble for it will always break the latter. While the PL's blockade breaks both.

No, it isn't. If it were, you'd have to beat all the fleets. But you don't, you only have to beat the grand armada or the supply fleets.

The challenge is to beat all the fleets. The requirement is to just beat the grand armada or supply fleets. I'm not sure why you're not getting this. The player can't fight all the fleets sent their way even if they want the challenge. The remaining fleets are pointless as they aren't relevant to the defense of the armada or supply fleets, the player can't fight them in one go, and they tend not to even try for revenge when the player beats the main fleet.
The only thing they achieve is spooking new players into not wanting to play the game.

[landryraccoon]

This is like the millionth thread about colony crises.

To be blunt this is a skill issue. Maybe the game could be more obvious about telling you how to resolve each crisis, like it is for Tri Tach.

My point is the same as it was in the other threads: none of the colony crises are that big of a deal. You can either solve diplomatically or just kill them.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

This is like the millionth thread about colony crises.

To be blunt this is a skill issue. Maybe the game could be more obvious about telling you how to resolve each crisis, like it is for Tri Tach.

My point is the same as it was in the other threads: none of the colony crises are that big of a deal. You can either solve diplomatically or just kill them.

If you had read the OP's post, you would know it was about the mechanics issues, lore issues, and time sink of the crisis system.

[Megas]

The challenge is to beat all the fleets. The requirement is to just beat the grand armada or supply fleets. I'm not sure why you're not getting this. The player can't fight all the fleets sent their way even if they want the challenge. The remaining fleets are pointless as they aren't relevant to the defense of the armada or supply fleets, the player can't fight them in one go, and they tend not to even try for revenge when the player beats the main fleet.
The only thing they achieve is spooking new players into not wanting to play the game.

And fighting them a fleet at a time can drain a lot of rep through a bunch of -5s (if I fight them while unid'ed).  Also, until the crisis ends, the fleets need to be totally wiped out just to be sure; no auto-resolving the strugglers if there are few enough for the player to kill personally.  (Hopefully, they all run now instead of survivors hanging around permanently until killed after end of crisis like in pre-hotfix release.)  The rep drain is an annoying thing about them.  If I rush colonies like in old expedition releases, I will fight the League with a weaker fleet not capable of handling more than one or two fleets at a time.  I can lay low and avoid other major factions until at least size 5, but League comes much sooner (before I can assemble a fleet that can comfortably kill 250k strength bounties).

The player can't fight all the fleets sent their way even if they want the challenge. The remaining fleets are pointless as they aren't relevant to the defense of the armada or supply fleets, the player can't fight them in one go, and they tend not to even try for revenge when the player beats the main fleet.

It is pointless if the goal is one fight with all of them.  If the goal was two or three massive fights in quick succession, like a boss rush or multistage boss, then the enemy would need more fleets than mercy would allow.  Of course, the combat goal is probably pick off those supply fleets, but like those two pirate fleets guarding the gate in the tutorial, it can be so bothersome to separate the fleets that just fighting anything yellow and angry until they leave is more convenient.

With so many fleets, they should be guarding their worlds or sent to fight the Hegemony, their real enemies, not bullying a wildcard it probably has positive relations with.  (If player had vengeful relations with League instead, that Grand Armada should wipe those colonies off the map instead.)

The two are intertwined. Some discrepancies between lore and gameplay are okay, and others ignorable (sat bombing). However, when something breaks both the lore and visible gameplay mechanics and forces you to deal with it, then it becomes a problem for suspension of disbelief and "fairness". Us getting punished for sat bombing but the other factions not getting in trouble for it will always break the latter. While the PL's blockade breaks both.

This is what I dislike about Diktat.  (Most are already angry with Pathers, so they do not count.)  If Diktat plays with nukes, then nukes should be a viable option on the table for the player too.  Either player should get away with retribution nuke strikes or Diktat earns hostilities from everyone who cares about atrocities.

If the Diktat successfully nuked my fuel planet, you bet I will retaliate and wipe Sindria off the map with sat bombing.  If the other factions want to pick a fight because of that, they too can join with their Diktat friends - all of them, even the Indies.  At least that is what I would feel like doing.

[basileus]

Maybe there should be a difficulty setting that influences both the thresholds for Crises to begin and the ultimate challenges that they pose.