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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: A Tale of Two Tech Levels (05/28/21)

Author Topic: Retreating into the enemy fleet  (Read 4961 times)

Avan

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Retreating into the enemy fleet
« on: May 30, 2012, 07:46:57 PM »

It seems that when attacking, if you order a retreat, your ships will retreat to the nearest boarder, which is usually all fine and dandy... except in the case when the enemy is hanging back and all your ships are on that side of the map.

Not sure how exactly this should be handled, but it is a problem when that ship you are trying to keep alive decides that the best path of escape is to run straight through the enemy formation and get blown up.

NikolaiLev

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2012, 09:44:56 PM »

The AI seems to have a lot of issues with real-time survivability.  This is one of those issues.  But you know, it isn't only an issue with retreating; I've seen ships just fly straight into hordes of enemies before.
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StahnAileron

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2012, 11:15:30 PM »

The problem is there, but it's been toned down significantly from what I remember in v0.51a. They do somewhat avoid enemy vessels when retreating now by trying to keep out of enemy firing range (give or take). So they do in fact veer around enemies that are in ther retreat path. It's better than before when they would just beeline straight for an edge, disregarding enemy positions and incoming fire.

Also, note that which edge they retreat towards is partially defined/limited by the fleet tactic you choose before the engagement, if applicable (Attack, Defend, Escape.)

In any case, I'm pretty sure the devs are aware of the mild incompetence of the AI at times (both ally and enemy). Some are bugs (like their behaviour when a ship is venting), quirks, or just unoptimized so far. They still have a lot of gameplay aspects to add to the game, so I can understand the AI not being top priority (high, sure, but not top.) AI tuning would probably be best saved for the beta phase when everything essential to the game has been incorporated. That way, everything the AI has to take into account to behave properly is there for us to test all together instead of piece-meal right now. Though pointing out odd behaviour now has its merits as well (especially if it affects gameplay or is just infuriating at times ::))
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Avan

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 09:22:26 PM »

I found another annoying issue: some ships, when ordered to retreat, don't retreat right away. The decide they are going to hang around a little longer and try to use up their ammo, and *then run off*. When I say "Retreat", I want you to RETREAT, damnit, not stick around and get blown up!

Thaago

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 09:39:01 PM »

I found another annoying issue: some ships, when ordered to retreat, don't retreat right away. The decide they are going to hang around a little longer and try to use up their ammo, and *then run off*. When I say "Retreat", I want you to RETREAT, damnit, not stick around and get blown up!

I've had a similar experience with craft ordered to any sort of destination while engaged in combat. Its a very weird behavior: ships will look like they are about to peel off (and have a clear path to do so) but then at the last minute decide to turn around and re-engage whomever they were fighting. Often with explosive consequences.
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IIE16 Yoshi

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 04:42:14 AM »

I notice that a lot with fighter wings. They tend to carry on their engagement for a couple moments before reacting to new orders, which oftentimes means they die because I was trying to pull them out of someplace where they've leeroy'd into far too much heat.
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Avan

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 06:07:09 PM »

I find that capital ships tend to be the most obedient by far, followed by cruisers and destroyers, while non-missile frigates and fighters tend to engage leeroy-jenkins mode the moment an enemy enters range, even if I immediately try to countermand them.

minno

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 06:19:00 PM »

I notice that a lot with fighter wings. They tend to carry on their engagement for a couple moments before reacting to new orders, which oftentimes means they die because I was trying to pull them out of someplace where they've leeroy'd into far too much heat.

The point of the game is that you shouldn't have to do that kind of micromanaging, since ships should be smart enough to fulfill your orders without doing anything stupid.
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Avan

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 06:25:47 PM »

I think it would be really nice to have basic stances, basically telling your fleet as a whole if it should charge in, guns blazing, death-or-glory-mode, or if it should play it safe and retreat to the rear if it begins to take hull damage, and it would take this into account on top of the captain personality. (Telling leeroy jenkins to be cautious isn't going to do a whole lot of good, but it will help the rest of the captains behave more in line with what you want).

NikolaiLev

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Re: Retreating into the enemy fleet
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 07:35:03 PM »

I think it would be really nice to have basic stances, basically telling your fleet as a whole if it should charge in, guns blazing, death-or-glory-mode, or if it should play it safe and retreat to the rear if it begins to take hull damage, and it would take this into account on top of the captain personality. (Telling leeroy jenkins to be cautious isn't going to do a whole lot of good, but it will help the rest of the captains behave more in line with what you want).

Agreed.  I was fighting an Antediluvian frigate with a single weapon from it having been captured by a Nomad fleet.  My bolts could catch up with it, but they were so ridiculously skittish and NEVER engaged the thing.  A short burst of the thing made them running off scared.

I presume it's because those Antediluvian fragmentation turrets have a super high DPS at a decent range.  Still, there's no reason why those bolts shouldn't have just laid into it.  Stances would help with this.
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