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Author Topic: Re: Is Thumper good now?  (Read 1428 times)

Khaos

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« on: June 17, 2024, 11:23:27 PM »

I somehow missed the buff on it for two entire years, but seeing how the damage per flux numbers are now 1 to 1 for shields and armor, it is indeed nice, especially because it is a 7 point medium. Many other guns are way worse with their damage/flux ratio, and they get away with it because they can be made very successful on specific builds. Thumper now has a way more extensive usefulness, especially on aggresive ships. 
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Thaago

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2024, 02:14:30 PM »

Seeing as how this thread is 2 years old, I've split off the topic into a new one.

In future, please make a new topic rather than reviving old ones, as old threads often have out of date information and users who are no longer present.




I think the thumper is currently an ok budget weapon - not precisely good, but also not a terrible way to fill out a slot on otherwise budget builds. I played around a little bit with it on onslaughts with S mod expanded magazine and found it to be really not bad.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2024, 02:35:29 PM »

even if it was good now, it would take a long time before someone would actually try it out, considering it gives you most significant burn in the game by looking like a cheaper version of the chaingun, and then turning out to be as impactful as a graviton beam.
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Selfcontrol

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2024, 03:37:02 PM »

Yes, I think it's good (but niche).

It's not for every ship or every build (which is totally fine !), but now instead of ditching every Thumper I find, I keep them around. It shreds the hull of all ships except the heaviest ones (and there's not a lot of them, most capitals and 99% of the cruisers don't have enough residual armor to neutered too much its damages). It's got great flux efficiency and its DPS is further increased by Expanded Magazines. And despite having fragmentation damages, it's good enough against frigates and destroyers shields and also good enough against frigates and destroyers armors except the heaviest ones (like the Manticore and the Enforcer). It also regenerates enough ammo/sec that you don't even need Expanded Magazine to use them to a satisfying degree.

The combination of Mining Blaster + Thumpers with Expanded Magazines is really, really strong on aggressive ships, but not just them. Unironically, I now like to put one on medium range Eradicators and Enforcers and I was pleasantly surprised by them on Dominators armed with Hellbores and small kinetics.

And it's absolutely insane on a player-piloted Onslaught with Expanded Magazines, one Storm Needler upfront and 3 Thumpers. But the Onslaught is a special case since Expanded Magazines also buffs its very strong TPCs.

TL;DR : previously it was a niche weapon that didn't achieve its niche well. Now it's a niche weapon that works. I'm happy.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2024, 03:39:00 PM by Selfcontrol »
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2024, 05:28:01 AM »

I know the AI will conserve Mining Blaster shots for use against armor. Is there any AI guidance for when to fire Thumper clips, or does it happily shoot into shields and armor?

1-1 efficiency means that isn't terrible, and Thumper also functions as a point defense weapon.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2024, 05:37:03 AM »

I know the AI will conserve Mining Blaster shots for use against armor. Is there any AI guidance for when to fire Thumper clips, or does it happily shoot into shields and armor?

1-1 efficiency means that isn't terrible, and Thumper also functions as a point defense weapon.
only accidentally. It would be like calling the annihilator PD. I don't think it conserves ammo against armour. Otherwise it would rob itself of the ability to damage it.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2024, 06:46:02 AM »

I know the AI will conserve Mining Blaster shots for use against armor. Is there any AI guidance for when to fire Thumper clips, or does it happily shoot into shields and armor?

1-1 efficiency means that isn't terrible, and Thumper also functions as a point defense weapon.
Does the same damage against shield and armor so i don't see the point
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FooF

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2024, 07:34:45 AM »

If the Thumper conserved its “full auto” for hull damage, that would be something. I don’t particularly like it dumping all its ammo into shields but I’m not complaining necessarily because I can argue for and against it. If it had to err, I’d say make it err toward doing armor/hull damage since that’s where it can actually shine.
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Selfcontrol

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2024, 09:11:23 AM »

If the Thumper conserved its “full auto” for hull damage, that would be something. I don’t particularly like it dumping all its ammo into shields but I’m not complaining necessarily because I can argue for and against it. If it had to err, I’d say make it err toward doing armor/hull damage since that’s where it can actually shine.

Imo, Thumpers ammo regen is good enough that I don't mind if it shoots into shield or armor. Unlike IR autolances.
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Brainwright

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2024, 10:28:05 AM »

Eh, I tend to pair a thumper with a kinetic weapon.  The ammo bin is for firing with the shield buster, boosting its efficiency and punishing shield flickering.  Naturally, you do need some anti-armor in this setup.

It tends to do well in situations where efficiency is better than raw output, which means it fails pretty hard against the best shield tanks and armor tanks.
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Thaago

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2024, 10:37:31 AM »

I wonder what the effect of the PD tag on the thumper would be. It does have 700 range and frag damage.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2024, 12:26:57 PM »

I wonder what the effect of the PD tag on the thumper would be. It does have 700 range and frag damage.
it'd be like the heavy burst laser, except it would fire all its shots at 1000 units, often fail to kill missiles because of limited DPS and would most likely overflux the user.

Basically kin to HMG
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Thaago

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2024, 01:43:12 PM »

I really don't see how the comparison to an HMG makes sense. The ranges, damage types, damage profile are all different.

Honestly the same for the burst laser - a thumper has 6000 damage in the magazine as compared to a burst laser's 990. Even accounting for lots of missed shots, that is still more than enough damage to kill missiles. Once out of ammo it would fire a 20 shot, 2000 damage burst every 4 second as opposed to a hbpd's 165 every 2 for 330 in the same period. Again, even counting a ton of misses, its much more damage.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2024, 03:02:13 PM »

I really don't see how the comparison to an HMG makes sense. The ranges, damage types, damage profile are all different.

Honestly the same for the burst laser - a thumper has 6000 damage in the magazine as compared to a burst laser's 990. Even accounting for lots of missed shots, that is still more than enough damage to kill missiles. Once out of ammo it would fire a 20 shot, 2000 damage burst every 4 second as opposed to a hbpd's 165 every 2 for 330 in the same period. Again, even counting a ton of misses, its much more damage.
the comparison was that I would expect it to be really bad at its role as a PD weapon, being significantly out-tiered by flak cannon and dual flak cannon.

But I did some testing, and surprisingly it can shoot down missiles. Which is cool. The problem with it is that it consumes even more flux than HMG. I assume. Meaning that Low Tech ships that need to have low spending PD to sustain themselves in combat, as due to their lack of mobility they have trouble repositioning. And they can also easily overflux due to their really bad flux stats... Well...

It just doesn't work that well. I recorded some footage for you, so you can see what I mean...

And trying to make this concept work would just create a Low Tech version of the Heavy Burst Laser. Except cheaper, more versatile, and somewhat more effective IF U HAVE SKILLS.

THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT NOTE. YOU NEED SKILLS FOR THIS THUMPER PD TO WORK. THEREFORE IT HAS THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM HMG HAS... IT'S NOT A REAL PD WEAPON.


the shielded parts are concluded prematurely. Cause I don't feel like waiting 20 minutes for them to do something. But you can extrapolate based on available data how they would perform in combat long-termly, etc. etc. etc.

(sorry for no sound, was recording this in dev mode)

ps:

funnily enough, I did try to put PD Burst Laser on an Enforcer to see what it would do, and it performs very similarly to the Thumper PD, in fact it performs somewhat worse. But that is to be expected. Probably either due to the fact that energy PD weapons are simply inferior to ballistic ones or basic Heavy Burst Laser is designed to counter specific non-high explosive missiles and fighter threats, in expectancy of the shield absorbing typical missile projectiles


basically, I assumed High Burst Laser is a high enough bar to make a weapon valid. But turns out in the case of Low Tech, it kinda isn't? It's complicated. Because it's not about the DPS, Spiderman, it's about the flux spending.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2024, 03:22:42 PM by Killer of Fate »
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: Is Thumper good now?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2024, 05:30:38 PM »

Anyone tried 3-5x LAC/Railgun + 3x Thumper + 5x Breach on Eradicator P?

Might be a good use-case for the gun.
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