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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); In-development patch notes for Starsector 0.98a (2/8/25)

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Author Topic: Omega Weapon Tier List  (Read 5765 times)

prav

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2024, 06:52:49 AM »

But I concur it's S-tier (even though I don't understand why) as any the Resonator typically tops the DCR chart on any ship that has it, on a per-slot basis.

Consistently hitting shields for 200% damage every cooldown adds up. Even HVDs have less uptime.
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crvt

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2024, 10:55:12 AM »

Kinetics usually top the chart. Except, this one is ridiculous long range, hard flux damage, homing kinetics that also happens to be nearly flux free.

They're like having a converted hangar Sarissa wing support, except way longer range, homing, and cost less points to field. That's probably the best direct comparison, not a large common missile slot.

Comparing with common missiles is a bit awkward, as it is a comparison between sustainable DPS and limited ammo.
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Selfcontrol

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2024, 11:33:01 AM »

My problem with disintegrators are that they are only effective against armor (not even hull, as most weapons are) and despite being specialized they're still slow. There is simply other ways to deal with armor that are not only faster but also viable against hull. I honestly believe Mining Blaster is better, it delivers very heavy armor damage and even some reasonable hull damage in roughly one second. Heavy Mauler destroys armor roughly as fast with much better range and accuracy. The only situation I see disintegrator being actually a good choice is if you were to engage a modded ship that has like 10K armor, absurd PD and no albative armor or anything similar.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. They definitely aren't optimal, but I like to use them for RP reasons and they DO work. In a fleet setting, they can do well, but they're inconsistent.  If they had their range and accuracy increased to where flankers could more easily threaten larger ships, then they might be in a good spot.

After thinking about it for a while, something like this would make it more appealing for me to use.

Ordnance points   14
Damage type   High Explosive Fragmentation
Range   700 900
Flux/sec   250
Accuracy   Spread Pattern Cut the barrel offsets by a few degrees to tighten the spread
Damage   100x3 400x3
Damage/sec 125 500
Refire delay 2.4 sec
Each shot deals an additional 500 damage to armor over 20 10 seconds (25dps 50dps). This damage is not reduced by armor.

EDIT : Ignore what I just said, I didn't read correctly what you wrote.

Honestly ? I liked the suggestion to make it bypass shields entirely. Lower its damages on hit to a truly low amount, slightly reduce its spread and make it bypass shields. This way you get a true "poison-like" weapon that obliterates armor, but it will almost never kill you. It would be a potent "debuff" weapon unique to the Sector, which would be neat imo.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2024, 11:34:50 AM by Selfcontrol »
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yajusenpai

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2024, 02:52:03 PM »

Cryoflamer, daddy still love you even if you only get a C on someone else's tier list.
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Please do not mention High Scatter Amplifier.

digitalizedMind

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2024, 05:07:42 PM »

Cryoflamer, daddy still love you even if you only get a C on someone else's tier list.
I like cryoflamer too it's just really hard to make it work. Most ships I put it on are either not agile enough to use it without dying, or don't have a strong enough power grid to empty the clip without overloading. But there are ships (especially in modded) that meet the criteria, my favorite being Nova.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2024, 12:54:54 AM »

At some point with all these tier lists that crop up, I should give a tier list of tier lists. In which case this one rates a solid A. There are a couple of things that I'd quibble with but they're mostly a matter of extent (i.e. "how much") as opposed to substance.

The Minipulser can potentially work better than small ballistics if you have Ballistic Rangefinder and manually control your weapons. Although most of my testing is assuming non-Omega weapons, when I include Omega weapons into the mix for my flagship Onslaught I'll manually turn on/off the Minipulsers to ensure that they only hit against shields. Thus even though they're less efficient than the Light Needler, they make up for it by hitting shields more often, especially since they burst down a target.

The Cryoblaster works great as a finisher. It's affected by Ballistic Rangefinder, so on my flagship Onslaught and especially on Conquest (taking up that medium energy slot) it's fantastic. Back when I tested SO fleets, an SO Apogee with a Cryoblaster in its large energy slot was about as effective as a Plasma Cannon in the same slot. Now that the Apogee can have a medium energy as well as a large energy in the nose, you can mount the Cryoblaster in the medium slot and then your large energy of choice (Plasma Cannon, Autopulse, HIL, etc.) for an SO build that works pretty well.

For the Rift Torpedo Launcher, I think of it more as a weapon to instigate overloads rather than a regular damage weapon in its own right. Not only from the damage itself (which the AI will try really hard to put up shields against it), but that you can focus fire your anti-shield weapons on whichever enemy target it's approaching to drive up their flux. If the large missile slot is on a turret, I'd recommend the Reality Disruptor, but if it's on a hardpoint that doesn't face forward (i.e. such as the Conquest where the large missile slot basically faces sideways since it's a broadside ship) the Rift Torpedo works well. This is more of a situational use though.

One general note about Omega weapons is that a lot of them are burst weapons, especially regenerating missiles. This makes them very effective for phase ships, especially with Phase Anchor. So if you're using any phase ships, you should consider how you might equip them with Omega weapons, especially since Omega weapons are very limited so you'll want to put them on where they'll have the most impact on the battle.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2024, 12:58:00 AM by Vanshilar »
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Beep Boop

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2024, 02:39:30 PM »

I really like disintegrators but the AI handles them poorly. Probably a C in my experience, but would be A tier if the AI used them correctly. Although, they're really only useful for fighting low tech. I like having them on ships that can can burst shields and then fall back. Just a salvo or two can completely strip armor off of ships. If you aren't facing low tech though, these are practically useless.
Problem is, there's no endgame-tier lowtech enemy. We have a single endgame repeatable enemy, Remnants, which are a very hightech-style build, with no corresponding lowtech counterpart.
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Insolent Peon

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2024, 05:22:01 PM »

Problem is, there's no endgame-tier lowtech enemy. We have a single endgame repeatable enemy, Remnants, which are a very hightech-style build, with no corresponding lowtech counterpart.

A thought occurs - functional drone mothership, accompanied by a pair of guardians and constantly generating smaller droneships.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2024, 10:34:33 PM »

Problem is, there's no endgame-tier lowtech enemy. We have a single endgame repeatable enemy, Remnants, which are a very hightech-style build, with no corresponding lowtech counterpart.

I tend to think of High Tech as fast and short-ranged, whereas Low Tech as slow and long-ranged, in which case the closest "endgame" enemy for Low Tech would be either the Drone Mothership or...stations.

I'm not quite sure what would be a good Low Tech endgame enemy though. I mean, [REDACTED] are nice because they use a lot of the game mechanics, i.e. shield, armor, hull, EMP, missiles, fighters, etc. They don't use phase though. So it really tests the player's knowledge of the different game mechanics, which is what endgame challenges should do. If you design a Low Tech endgame enemy with no shields, then the natural counter is going to be HIL/Harpoon spam, etc. Not sure how "fun" or "interesting" that would be.
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Amoebka

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2024, 11:09:35 PM »

Hegemony crisis fleets are your low-tech endgame enemy. I don't think we necessarily need any new boss factions, just more reasons to fight human faction fleets filled with triple s-mods and level 7 officers.
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FooF

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2024, 07:31:50 AM »

Low Tech endgame enemy doesn’t need to be shield less. In fact, a very high-armor enemy could have an extremely efficient albeit narrow shield to block the inevitable HIL/HE spam. Like a 30 degree Omni Shield that is .3 efficiency. Good for taking Reapers and beams but has super low coverage.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2024, 08:48:07 AM »

Hegemony crisis fleets are your low-tech endgame enemy. I don't think we necessarily need any new boss factions, just more reasons to fight human faction fleets filled with triple s-mods and level 7 officers.

Yeah one suggestion I made somewhere along the line is for planets to have defense fleets. It doesn't make sense that the player can just stroll in and start sat bombing planets when millions of lives could be at stake. So it makes more sense if, prior to bombing, the planet detects the player converting the fuel in order to bomb or something like that and then send in their best defense fleet. That would be a reason why those ships have s-mods and stuff and would provide a bigger challenge than your typical human faction fleet, which would provide its own sort of "endgame" challenge without having to come up with new content and would showcase the different features of each faction. So trying to sat bomb Chico would become a legitimate endgame challenge (I imagine it would scale by planet population).

It makes sense that if the player is doing something so impactful, that there would be a corresponding high bar to clear to have it happen.
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Thaago

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2024, 12:08:34 PM »

I would very much like planets to have defense fleets. It would also make smuggling on those worlds a little less trivial!
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digitalizedMind

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2024, 04:59:25 PM »

Nexerelin random sector actually adds defense fleets to large markets, they're called response fleets IIRC. I like it, it prevents lategame station battles from being too easy. I could be wrong but I believe the response fleet scales with market size and/or the colony's fleet size.
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Üstad

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Re: Omega Weapon Tier List
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2024, 07:38:42 PM »

Try a Scarab ship with 5 Rift Lances, oh boy it's OP for and arguably the best use of Rift Lances.
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