Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Planet Search Overhaul (07/13/24)

Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: unnecessary weapon tier list (updated with new entries)  (Read 1593 times)

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
    • View Profile
unnecessary weapon tier list (updated with new entries)
« on: June 11, 2024, 02:00:07 AM »

(only speaking about weapons I have strong opinions about)

Exceptionally Good:

Storm Needler - Possessive of mag mechanics that do not impact its DPS to a strong enough extent, Storm Needler is a mandatory Low Tech weapon to deal with Remnants as most likely no other kinetic in the game is capable of standing up to its high efficiency, incredible burst potential and even post-spending the whole mag DPS. Especially if given the expanded magazines s-mod, which increases its DPS to theoretical 625. But most important further extends its burst potential. Dealing over 18k anti-shield damage across 4 and a half seconds. Not including damage modifiers.

Autopulse - an extremely useful weapon for ships that have enough slots to not mandate the usage of Plasma Cannon. Becomes obnoxiously effective with s-modded expanded magazines. Especially worth using for ships that are op and flux starved, and not possessive of excessive amounts of s-mods to make up for their general weaknesses and budgetary restrictions.

Flak/Vulcan - flawless PD weapons that will very often simply negate entire missile and light fighter presence

Cyclone - Contrary to its lesser variants, Cyclone launches a projectile that is nearly impossible to dodge even to light cruisers. Its extremely high damage and high magazine capacity allows it to overwhelm even High Tech shields. Its effectiveness is mostly kept in check by the nature of few ships being able to equip large missiles at angles attractive to the Cyclone. Makes Radiant exceptionally dangerous however. Among other aspects supporting its existence.

Kinetic Blaster - an underappreciated weapon of extremely high value against Remnant enemies. As High Tech ships flux budget is most often not infinite. Even when utilising SO. The Kinetic Blaster's abilities can go under the radar of normal players as its acquisition can be quite unintuitive.

Heavy Mauler - a premium, flawless long-ranged anti-armour weapon that easily destroys even heavy armour. Exposing hull to potent damage. Nearly uncounterable. Can wither away most ships scot-free unlike most anti-armour weapons which need to either deal with PD, limited ammo, short range, bad accuracy or low hit strength limitations.

added later -> [ Tachyon Lance - a weapon that may easily be countered by High Tech shields but most often isn't. Tachyon Lance performs the job of the ultimate beam weapon in the game, capable of simply removing a massive variety of enemies by the virtue of innately countering their existence. Similarly to the Heavy Mauler, the Tachyon Lance has no real counterplay with the exception of using the right ships. Which is why so many ships aren't used in anti-Remnant late game out of fear of the 5 Tachyon Lance Radiant. Though this variant has an only 30% chance to occur per a Radiant. ]

added later -> [ Locust - obnoxiously effective large missile launcher with proper projectile speed, very high ammo capacity, perfect tracking and high damage against stripped armour. Its applications are very easy to execute. Not necessitating the usage of ECCM or Expanded Missile Racks. Contrary to almost all large missile launchers. ]

Just Good

Heavy Needler - a good burst weapon, though difficult to equip by the nature of most ships possessive of many medium slots being flux starved. Low hit strength makes it difficult for it to finish off enemies. Burst nature allows it to rip off a shield and expose the hull damage without unnecessary flux spending on weapons. In theory. Though to repeat. High op cost removes many of a ship's valuable immunisations.

added later -> [ Heavy Mortar - it's cheap. You get what you pay for. And what you get is manageable. Leaves lots of room for other stuff. Heavy Armour. Expanded Missile Racks. EMP resistance, Armoured Weapon Mounts, etc. etc. ]

Phase Lance - highly flux efficient weapon limited by short range which greatly reduces the effectiveness in NPC hands. Can almost instantly murder in pairs many frigates, destroyers, etc. Overloading poor shield generators. Would be far more dangerous if many ships such as Medusa, Falcon, Eagle could equip Advanced Optics without having to have it occupy one of their s-mod slots.

Railgun - a relatively generalist weapon with the same hit strength as the IR Pulse Laser that allows it to bully frigates and destroyers into submission. Lesser kinetic practicality than that of Light Needler, but non-burst nature, pin-point accuracy and slightly lower OP cost makes it more convenient to use. Would be significantly more potent if Ballistic Rangefinder did not cost ships the equivalent of their kidney.

Mjolnir/Heavy Blaster/Plasma Cannon - high-end DEATH weapons with obnoxiously high flux costs making them only really effective in s-modded builds. Or exceptionally powerful ships with exceptionally high flux venting stats (eg. Paragon, Radiant). Otherwise their high flux spending is more often than not a noob trap. And they should be instead substituted with a more specialised tool such as Breach. Or a bunch of more efficient tools that perform similar function via suppression, burst damage and long-term anti-shield potential.

Pulse Laser - a perfect balance between cheapness of projectile and relative usefulness of it. Pulse Laser has high enough hit strength to annoy medium armour ships. And allows even the most budgetary High Tech ships to make use of it in long term engagements. As long as paired with a good EMP weapon and any anti-armour tool in case things get fat.

added later -> [ Ion Pulser - highly effective suppression tool with limited albeit effective damage, slightly bogged down by relative albeit not that noticeable flux inefficiency. Just a good weapon overall that surprisingly does exactly what it's told to, unlike 90% of tools in this game which usually work in a really roundabout way. Explains why it's so often used. ]

Breach Pod - impossible to counter dumb-proof anti-armour tool that not even the most eloquent PD grids can shoot down. Also possessive of a quite high ammo count. Giving it long term functionality unlike most anti-armour missile weapons.'

added later -> [ Breach - discussing Breach in the context of frigates. It's necessary to underline that burst potential is more important with ships that can sometimes not fulfil their value by the virtue of being killed instantly. ]

Atropos - difficult to counter instant murder tool. Many frigates can be just equipped with this, Expanded Missile Racks and Missile Specialisation to give them instant high value. Though often ships capable of hosting it are really bad or overpriced in DP terms.

added later -> [ Annihilator - it's fine. It has lots of ammo and when it hits, it hits. Obviously can be easily dodged, shot down, etc. etc. But it does create pressure. A cover. And a lot of cool things happening about. Works well on many Low Tech ships. Definitely better than easily counterable strike solutions such as Harpoon. ]

Sabot - uncounterable anti-shield weapon as long as fired from close ranges. Preferably from under a shield. Exceptionally dangerous to Midline ships which do not have PD, mobility, shield or armour strength to survive strike attacks utilising its strength.

added later -> [ Gorgon - quite practical weapon that allows a ship to instantly kill a frigate. Not an impressive feat. As frigates are often designed to have very significant weaknesses especially when using their base variants. The damage obviously is still quite useful against other ship classes. It's a good missile launcher, simply put. No complaints here. Except maybe the inability to deal anti-shield damage, but that is obvious. ]

added later -> [ Gazer - an also practical anti-shield tool that can be spammed against minor enemies to overwhelm their shield projectors with ease. The weapon is basically uncounterable. Therefore perhaps with further investigation this weapon could be even overpowered? But I am not certain at the moment. Most likely not due to the nature of soft flux damage. ]

added later -> [ Hydra - a quite practical large missile launcher that is cheap, has a lot of ammo, and projectiles that can often catch up with even nimble enemies without using ECCM. However its projectiles can be easily shot down (with flak), its damage can be easily absorbed by a potent enough shield. Even very high armour. Basically, a low impact low risk missile launcher. A major issue of it is the fact that as of now it lacks a DANGEROUS tag, making ships underestimate its damaging capabilities. Causing them to often rush into its grasp, dying instantly. ]

Typhoon - has a lot of ammo, and ships that use it can get close enough to hit with it in spite of its slow projectile acceleration. Unlike Reaper ships that use it also do not have to deal with ridiculously difficult to counteract circumstances created by obnoxious angles of small missile slots positioning. On ships such as Falcon or Aurora.

added later -> [ Reaper - the ability to give a frigate the ability to deal ridiculously high damage to armour at very little OP cost is nice. Obviously not applicable to all ships. But it's very convenient to use when it is. Wish it had the projectile boost the Cyclone has (even if it is overpowered). Mostly for the sake of Cobra. But whatever...
HOWEVER, it's important to note that only frigates fast enough to enter that range can utilise this missile launcher properly. Such as Tempest. Otherwise this missile might be launched at ranges too high to actually connect with anything. ]

PD Laser - a decent anti-missile and anti-fighter tool when your ship doesn't have enough s-mods to give it a 360 degrees shield coverage. Or other methods of immunising against threats of that kind. Still expensive considering plenty of mobile ships that use PD Lasers (Fury, Eagle, Falcon, Odyssey) are op-starved. And what you get is usually less than what you actually pay for. Making most players pick token PD over actual PD to get more OP for damaging tools and flux capacitors.

added later -> [ LR PD Laser - same as PD Laser except for frigates. Not as applicable in comparison to cruisers and capital ships as missiles may be launched from distances far closer than maximum range of an LR PD Laser, and in that case higher damage is more valuable. Also important to note that ridiculously excessive beam range can lead to the loss of 0-flux boost for no justifiable reason. ]

added later -> [ Burst PD - premium PD option, usually meant for ships with limited PD slots to protect their frail but slow bodies. High Tech will often find it easier to use excessive amounts of flux and boosted shield projectors to defend themselves. But ships like Eagle will find it easier to simply shoot down incoming strike projectiles. ]

added later - > [ Ion Cannon - a very cheap way to allow a low hit strength ship to eventually win against superior armour enemies. Ion Cannon serves as key in the High Tech arsenal. Without it many ships would find themselves defenceless against threats such as Dominator, Eradicator, etc. etc. But with it, they find themselves winning quite easily under the right circumstances. ]

IR Lance - exceptionally cheap weapon that murders anything without armour. A suppression tool of the ages with an almost non-existent OP cost.

High Intensity Laser - uncounterable weapon that renders nearly all Low Tech armour users obsolete. Its restrictor is the fact that few ships can use it without spending an important weapon slot on a specialised tool where most high-end enemies don't rely on armour anymore. But instead ridiculously powerful endless shields.

Graviton Beam - a weapon with relative practicality of dealing moderate shield damage at low flux costs. Only really useful because of the fact that Midline ships have plenty of energy slots but no flux to actually run them. Though its impact is almost minimal.

Stroke-Inducing

AMB - no real competitors causes it become a really powerful weapon by default. Nonetheless, I still think it's quite bad. Very limited range paired with high op costs forces most ships that use it into obnoxious combat that leaves them exposed. Can be made useful. But long-term tools are probably more effective. And in terms of SO builds, I'm not really certain. An obvious mandatory pick for phase ships, though the nature of phase ships being extremely micromanagement intensive, and binary in function due to the nature of Phase Coil Tuning, makes them a really really really really really really really really strange ship class that isn't really worth discussing until further balance changes.

added later -> [ Gigacannon - a weapon of cost higher than Autopulse yet somewhat similar utility with potential constricted by not relying on magazine mechanics which can be heavily amplified for the sake of creating very significant burst potential. And even major DPS increases. Whilst flashy, its damage is not ridiculous. Being more of a weapon designed for display than practicality. ]

Harpoon - a weapon that gets outclassed by Breach in terms of being an anti-armour tool. Functions also as a finisher that can be countered by a pair of Vulcan Cannons. Requires ECCM investment to be useful. But the nature of its spending may cause it to go to waste by overkilling a single already dead enemy. And then a specialised ship running out of ammo immediately. By this or other further circumstances.

Dragon - an exceptionally powerful and interesting missile that gets bogged down by ridiculously high OP cost and low ammo count. Easy to get shot down by flak cannons. Dies instantly and is never seen again. With a ship that spent morbillion OP to make it run have nothing to show for itself. Also gets hard-countered by shields which makes it a non-late game pick.

Chaingun/Heavy Machine Gun - extremely short-ranged weapons that often don't do enough to justify their high OP cost. Heavy Machine Gun benefits from PD Mastery+, but that is the weirdest synergy ever. Nonetheless it still kinda fails because of low hit strength, inability to actually target missiles more often than not. High flux spending. But most importantly due to the fact that no Low Tech ship is fast enough to get that close. And no Midline ship durable enough to get that close and not die. Same applies to Chaingun. But even more.

LMG/DLMG - horrible weapons that can't perform the function they were literally made to perform. In terms of anti-shield damage should be substituted with something else (like Sabot). In terms of SO applications, I have no idea. Hammerhead maybe? In terms of PD. They are instantly outclassed by Vulcan. For DLMG you are literally paying more to get less.

added later -> [ Heavy Burst PD - very rarely are there ships which can substitute their medium energy weapon with something that is not only expensive for what it does, but also quite underwhelming at it. If you want decent anti-fighter protection. Use the IR Lance. If you want decent anti-missile protection, try achieving it without sacrificing your core damage slots. ]

added later -> [ Guardian PD - a weapon designed to solve a problem that no longer exists. Most missile weapons which Guardian was designed to shoot down are bleh now. Especially Squall. It's no longer justifiable to sacrifice a large energy slot for a dedicated PD mount that only possesses minor secondary applications of being able to quickly kill exposed poorly armoured opponents. Though honestly. There never was to begin with. As standard issue vanilla variants are not that good at missile spam. ]

added later -> [ Devastator - a weapon that exists solely for the Onslaught. No other ship in the game can effectively use it, mostly because there is no justification for it. The Devastator's lore implies that the reason it was created was to counter fighters. But fighters in Starsector are obsolete. They don't need to be countered. They counter themselves. ]

Light Mortar - can't hit a planet's surface while you're standing on it because of low projectile speed, imprecise aiming. And even if it does hit, it usually does nothing. Validated sort off by Heron using its skill with Warthogs, giving it high enough hit strength to destroy Conquest armour. But carriers don't scale at all. And Conquest is bad. So, eh... Irrelevant.

Tactical Laser - a weapon that does no damage. Spends a lot of flux. Costs a lot of OP. Wastes PD slots. And is usually just awful in every single way imaginable.

Squall - a missile launcher that the AI happily spams, usually achieving nothing, until it runs out. Mandating the usage of ECCM and Expanded Missile Racks for nothing more than some additional shield damage. Usually it's better to have something like Locust covering you I suppose. Though missile options recently have been just kinda awful.

added later -> [ Annihilator Pod - unlike the standard Annihilator missile launcher, the pod will launch projectiles at a very fast rate. High ranges too. Which in turns leads to most of the projectiles going to waste. The damage can be quite high if the missile launcher is utilised properly. But standard NPCs will often not utilise it properly. To elaborate. The NPC will rapidly run out of missiles. Even if given additional ones. Achieving very little. And then having no cards to play in case the situation turns sour. ]

IR Pulse Laser - the only thing it's good at is giving minor shield pressure, killing ships that die to a breeze, or shooting down fighters. Otherwise this weapon is overpriced, too short-ranged, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2024, 10:16:14 AM by Killer of Fate »
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3050
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2024, 02:15:40 AM »

Is this supposed to be satirical? I genuinely can't tell because some weapons are described and valued perfectly fine, but then with some I begin to question did you mix them up with something else, or are you just playing a heavily modded game.

Kinetic Blaster being in the best group while AMB being in the worst feels like bait.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2024, 02:17:13 AM »

Is this supposed to be satirical? I genuinely can't tell because some weapons are described and valued perfectly fine, but then with some I begin to question did you mix them up with something else, or are you just playing a heavily modded game.

Kinetic Blaster being in the best group while AMB being in the worst feels like bait.
I based my opinion on Kinetic Blaster on Signir's video on SO High Tech ships in which they easily wiped out a plethora of Remnants.
And I base my opinion on the AMP on its usage on standard High Tech ships. Not Phase Ship ones. But you can obviously disagree.

also, stroke-inducing doesn't meant they are necessarily unusable. But designed in a way that causes them to be quite infuriating. Mostly due to the fact that they get easily countered or a very difficult to make work. Though there are obvious exceptions to this rule. Like LMG, which is just... Bleh.
Logged

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2809
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2024, 02:25:00 AM »

AMB is the only weapon phase frigates need. There is no comparison with anything else. Removal of AMB from the game would basically remove phase frigates as a viable class.

LMG/DLMG - it's not PD. It's a knife-fighting weapon, for use on Lashers. Was much better before introduction of residual armor, but LMG+Mortar(or annihilators) Lasher is still the cheapest and most reliable upgrade for poorest starts.

IR Pulse Laser - it's the best non-large anti shield energy weapon (yes, energy weapons suck at breaking shields, it's best only because the rest sucks more). A Scarab with 5 IRs is simple and reliable early-ish build for player (AI wastes ship's system too badly). It can also be used with IPDAI on Conquest or Odyssey. Extremely flux expensive by PD standards, but also one of very few PD options that can shut down Squalls. Would be better if we could toggle PD targeting in combat though, most cheap missiles are just not worth firing with IPDAI IR.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 02:30:26 AM by TaLaR »
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3050
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2024, 02:29:28 AM »

But I don't understand how can you value Cyclone so much higher than the Squall. Squall is just reliable long range kinetic pressure, while Cyclone requires a ship to get into range and even then it can miss or just waste them on destroyers. Cyclone was also heavily nerfed in the latest version.

This looks even weirder if you're basing your opinions on how good a weapon does vs Remnants.

HIL is also amazingly good at clearing Remnants, the most successful build for clearing bunch of Remnants was a ship with two HILs...

So yeah it's not really clear what makes them "infuriating" or "very difficult to make work". While somehow Cyclone isn't infuriating to use on AI ships.

And last thing, I'd consider AMB mandatory on Fury and Aurora which are standard High tech ships. Fury will die once it uses its system, it might as well burst something down before.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2024, 03:05:56 AM »

But I don't understand how can you value Cyclone so much higher than the Squall. Squall is just reliable long range kinetic pressure, while Cyclone requires a ship to get into range and even then it can miss or just waste them on destroyers. Cyclone was also heavily nerfed in the latest version.
reliable

Cyclone's opinion is based partially of the fact that the Radiant uses it... Against you. Not the other way around. And yes the reasoning behind few ships being able to equip is what brings it down somewhat. But if it can be equipped, it is imo quite a superior finishing tool with 0 counterplay on the enemy's end.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 03:09:55 AM by Killer of Fate »
Logged

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2024, 03:09:13 AM »

AMB is the only weapon phase frigates need. There is no comparison with anything else. Removal of AMB from the game would basically remove phase frigates as a viable class.

LMG/DLMG - it's not PD. It's a knife-fighting weapon, for use on Lashers. Was much better before introduction of residual armor, but LMG+Mortar(or annihilators) Lasher is still the cheapest and most reliable upgrade for poorest starts.

IR Pulse Laser - it's the best non-large anti shield energy weapon (yes, energy weapons suck at breaking shields, it's best only because the rest sucks more). A Scarab with 5 IRs is simple and reliable early-ish build for player (AI wastes ship's system too badly). It can also be used with IPDAI on Conquest or Odyssey. Extremely flux expensive by PD standards, but also one of very few PD options that can shut down Squalls. Would be better if we could toggle PD targeting in combat though, most cheap missiles are just not worth firing with IPDAI IR.
LMG Lasher is a thing I rarely consider, cause my early game is mostly spent around with Wolves and Shrikes. When thinking about it, I'm thinking about in the context of a Dominator. Maybe Mora. Or Legion. So, I am not aware of this build. Can you elaborate on it?

Pulse Laser IPDAI PD Mastery+ Scarab combo is quite fun. But it wastes a strong officer on a ship with limited combat applications. Though I suppose if you need someone for the Coordinated Manoeuvres it's a good pick. Though definitely 8 dp for a 180 seconds frigate that struggles to have high punch weapons is definitely a very awful deal imo.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 03:15:47 AM by Killer of Fate »
Logged

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2809
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2024, 05:34:04 AM »

LMG Lasher is a thing I rarely consider, cause my early game is mostly spent around with Wolves and Shrikes. When thinking about it, I'm thinking about in the context of a Dominator. Maybe Mora. Or Legion. So, I am not aware of this build. Can you elaborate on it?

Pulse Laser IPDAI PD Mastery+ Scarab combo is quite fun. But it wastes a strong officer on a ship with limited combat applications. Though I suppose if you need someone for the Coordinated Manoeuvres it's a good pick. Though definitely 8 dp for a 180 seconds frigate that struggles to have high punch weapons is definitely a very awful deal imo.

5 LMG (or replace 1 with a LAG) + 2 Annilihators, UI, SO is optional (easier, but runs out of PPT), rest is flux and optional hullmods. Good enough to kill most destroyers with a little distraction. Black market very often have pristine Lashers, LMGs are super common, and you can substitute missiles for swarmers/breachers, so this variant is almost always available right away. This is strictly a player ship, AI isn't aggressive enough.

AI can't use Scarabs - wastes PPT via untimely system activation so badly that system becomes a detriment.
Logged

DeusVauly

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • a happy amateur
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2024, 06:28:53 AM »

Surprised the ion cannon and pulsar didn't get mentioned considering your focus on high tech and Extended magazines.
Logged

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1195
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2024, 06:36:47 AM »

Surprised the ion cannon and pulsar didn't get mentioned considering your focus on high tech and Extended magazines.
you're right. I should have mentioned them. Hold up... I'll add them to the list.

(added them to the list under the section "no strong feelings about them")


I tried writing something on them, but honestly felt kinda dumb. I don't have strong enough opinions to formulate a cohesive statement about their existence. To me they just are.

tried a bit more... Now they are in the tier list.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2024, 09:26:31 AM by Killer of Fate »
Logged

gresp

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2024, 09:10:59 AM »

Storm Needler/Heavy Needler - it's a anti-shield shotgun with way too high flux use and short range. Range is too short for harrasing and flux usage too high for brawling - I don't understand this weapon and rather go for Hypervelocity Driver instead. Light needler is ok since it's role to overflux or scare off small ships, and it works ok on long-range escort Hammerheads with Heavy maulers.

Pulse Laser - does enyone use it? really? why? It's a medium slot weapon in a world where Ion Pulsers exist and do relatively same damage with chance to completely shut down enemy guns/engines.

PD Laser - useless. Yes, it is a pd weapon. No, it's still useless. Even on Donut. Even if you have nothing else to put in this slot.

IR Lance - God-tier  anti-fighter weapon. One Champion with 4 of IR Lances can turn every droneship on a battlefield into useless flying bricks. Absolutely evaporate any fighter on sight and, as a bonus, does good damage to hull.

Gravitune Beam/Tacticool Laser - does nothing but looks cool. Must have for a good rave party.

Burst PD Laser - the best small slot weapon in a game. Scarab with 5 burst pd + advanced optics + ustable injector is a monster comparable only with hyperion, in player hands can solo kill nearly any ship in game, struggles only against very good shields on big high tech/remnant cruisers or bigger ships, but any low tech ship is just a food for him. Really shines with elite PD skill. In AI hands is one of the best escort ships in a game, by far better then omen, and very decent flanking harasser. The only downside for Burst pd is you cannot tell it to prioritise fighters over missiles.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 09:37:12 AM by gresp »
Logged

eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2024, 09:52:51 AM »

Is this supposed to be satirical? I genuinely can't tell because some weapons are described and valued perfectly fine, but then with some I begin to question did you mix them up with something else, or are you just playing a heavily modded game.

Kinetic Blaster being in the best group while AMB being in the worst feels like bait.
KB is good when you have a lot of OP but are low on flux. It works best for support doctrine builds. KB 375 flux/s + a Phase Lance at 174 = 549flux/s vs a Heavy Blaster at 720flux/s. It comes at a cost of 22 OP vs 12, but in many cases that is worth it.

Storm Needler/Heavy Needler - it's a anti-shield shotgun with way too high flux use and short range. Range is too short for harrasing and flux usage too high for brawling - I don't understand this weapon and rather go for Hypervelocity Driver instead. Light needler is ok since it's role to overflux or scare off small ships, and it works ok on long-range escort Hammerheads with Heavy maulers.

Pulse Laser - does enyone use it? really? why? It's a medium slot weapon in a world where Ion Pulsers exist and do relatively same damage with chance to completely shut down enemy guns/engines.

PD Laser - useless. Yes, it is a pd weapon. No, it's still useless. Even on Donut. Even if you have nothing else to put in this slot.

IR Lance - God-tier  anti-fighter weapon. One Champion with 4 of IR Lances can turn every droneship on a battlefield into useless flying bricks. Absolutely evaporate any fighter on sight and, as a bonus, does good damage to hull.

Gravitune Beam/Tacticool Laser - does nothing but looks cool. Must have for a good rave party.

Burst PD Laser - the best small slot weapon in a game. Scarab with 5 burst pd + advanced optics + ustable injector is a monster comparable only with hyperion, in player hands can solo kill nearly any ship in game, struggles only against very good shields on big high tech/remnant cruisers or bigger ships, but any low tech ship is just a food for him. Really shines with elite PD skill. In AI hands is one of the best escort ships in a game, by far better then omen, and very decent flanking harasser. The only downside for Burst pd is you cannot tell it to prioritise fighters over missiles.
I use Pulse Lasers all the time. The OP and flux decrease, hit strength, DPS , and range increase make it so I favor putting EMP damage elsewhere.

Tactical Lasers with built in IPDAI make for some of the best support PD thanks to their range.
Logged

Phenir

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2024, 10:09:52 AM »

Storm Needler/Heavy Needler - it's a anti-shield shotgun with way too high flux use and short range. Range is too short for harrasing and flux usage too high for brawling - I don't understand this weapon and rather go for Hypervelocity Driver instead. Light needler is ok since it's role to overflux or scare off small ships, and it works ok on long-range escort Hammerheads with Heavy maulers.
Storm needler is ridiculously flux efficient and the dps is out of control. Expanded mags lets it dump 150 shots before running out of ammo, 7500 kinetic damage before any modifiers. Gets even more insane if you actually build in mags, jumping up to 270 shots. Very little has the flux capacity to tank that. Stomps shield heavy ships which are going to get in close to you anyway because energy range. Same for heavy needler. HVD is a completely different role and honestly I think HVDs kind of suck. Low dps and bad efficiency which makes them bad at the flux war unless you're fast enough to kite forever.

Pulse Laser - does enyone use it? really? why? It's a medium slot weapon in a world where Ion Pulsers exist and do relatively same damage with chance to completely shut down enemy guns/engines.
More dps and efficiency than ion pulser. Also more range and 1 less op. You can get ion from the small energy slots. For hit and run though, ion pulser is better yeah.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 10:15:56 AM by Phenir »
Logged

gresp

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2024, 10:21:51 AM »


I use Pulse Lasers all the time. The OP and flux decrease, hit strength, DPS , and range increase make it so I favor putting EMP damage elsewhere.


Can't think of any ship where I would want them over Ion Pulsers. Can you share any example?


More dps and efficiency than ion pulser. Also more range and 1 less op. You can get ion from the small energy slots. For hit and run though, ion pulser is better yeah.

500 vs 600 range isn't that different and with such short range it's better not to engage into flux efficiency battle and just unload everything you have and break away. Small ships like Wolf or Tempest can't handle those 240 flux/sec from a singe gun, and bigger ships that can extend it's range still would have much better options for flux damage/tank ratio (like phase lance or heavy blaster).  Don't know, I just can't see it

Not gonna argue about needlers cause i was completely disappointed in every kinetic/explosive guns since I discovered a high tech "in your face" bully loadouts :) They are very fun to pilot.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 10:48:50 AM by gresp »
Logged

Phenir

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 617
    • View Profile
Re: unnecessary weapon tier list
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2024, 11:50:12 AM »

Small ships like Wolf or Tempest can't handle those 240 flux/sec from a singe gun
But they can handle mag dumping at 1000 flux/sec?
bigger ships that can extend it's range still would have much better options for flux damage/tank ratio (like phase lance or heavy blaster).  .
Phase lance is soft flux and anti armor/hull. Blaster is anti armor tool. Both different role from pulse laser. Pulse laser should be compared to kinetic blaster, both efficient anti shield. Pulse laser is better at anti hull though while kinetic blaster leans harder into shield. Pulse laser can also pull double duty with anti fighter role which you probably don't want to waste pulser charges on.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2