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[Guilty]

Hello.

Shield shunt drama continues...

SS hullmod removes shield and gives you 15% armor.
If you build it in, if adds only 15% additional armor.
Since you can only have 2 build in hullsmods in each ship (3 if you are specced ), would 15% additional armor justify ONE build in?

It feels to me SS build in option lacks a bit, comparing some other build ins.

[Princess of Evil]

30% more armor in a game where with enough armor you can be invulnerable? Yes please.

[Rusty Edge]

Quite simple, you may find a ship that you want to completely dedicate to the SS stratagem. A 30% increase to armor is very significant on vessels with higher armor ratings.

Case in point. Heavy Armor provides a 500 armor boost to The base Onslaught. Built in shield shunt provides 525. Add 175 from armored weapon mounts and you have just under a 70% increase to armor rating. Add the effects of Impact Mitigation and polarized armor, and you have a pretty mean hulk.

[Amoebka]

For historical reference: when shield shunt was first added to the game (before s-mod bonuses), it gave +25% armor by default. This was considered OP enough to get nerfed to +15% almost immediately by Alex.

[Guilty]

Maybe i didnt said it clear enough so i will say it again.

BUILD IN SS gives you 15% more armor
Having SS as a normal hullmod ( not build in ) Gives you 15% armor and Shunt effect.

I am puting 15% additional armor against a different hullmod that can be Build In.
For me that additional 15% armor just seems too weak to be traded off by another build in mod.

[Amoebka]

S-modding ITU gives no bonus effect and saves 25 OP. S-modding Shield Shunt gives +15% armor and saves 10 OP.

Is +15% armor worth 15 OP on an Onslaught with 370 OP?

[Phenir]

The more armor you have, the better armor becomes. Armor both absorbs damage and reduces damage taken. More armor also means more residual armor, increasing effective hull amount.

[Guilty]

S-modding ITU gives no bonus effect and saves 25 OP. S-modding Shield Shunt gives +15% armor and saves 10 OP.

Is +15% armor worth 15 OP on an Onslaught with 370 OP?

My point exactly.

 SS costs only 10 OP and for that i get SS effect and 15% armor.

And if the overall direction is to have a beafy ship with SS, wouldnt it be more reasonable to build in Reinforced bulkheads and recieve 40% more hull? Which works well with Combat endurance and Damage Control.

[Amoebka]

What point? 15% extra armor for 15 OP is an insane deal, it's twice as good as heavy armor. You can get bulkhead bonus without spending an s-mod slot, Onslaught has plenty OP for that. You can't get the extra armor without s-modding.

If you want to use shield shunt, s-modding it is always the best option. The bonus is more than good enough.

[Phenir]

S-modding ITU gives no bonus effect and saves 25 OP. S-modding Shield Shunt gives +15% armor and saves 10 OP.

Is +15% armor worth 15 OP on an Onslaught with 370 OP?

My point exactly.

 SS costs only 10 OP and for that i get SS effect and 15% armor.

And if the overall direction is to have a beafy ship with SS, wouldnt it be more reasonable to build in Reinforced bulkheads and recieve 40% more hull? Which works well with Combat endurance and Damage Control.

Building in shield shunt and not reinforced hull costs you 20 op but you gain 262 armor on an onslaught. Heavy armor costs 40 op and gives 500 armor. So in this case, shield shunt is giving more armor per op than heavy armor. And if you don't build in shield shunt, you just plain don't get that armor. What are you spending that 20 op on?

[Guilty]

its not all about 20 OP, its about other BUILD IN  effects that could give you more bulk, if the point of using SS is being bulky. And you get only 2 (3 if talent point )

Is 262 armor better then 8000 Hull ( if you got for build in RB ) ?

[Phenir]

its not all about 20 OP, its about other BUILD IN  effects that could give you more bulk, if the point of using SS is being bulky. And you get only 2 (3 if talent point )

Is 262 armor better then 8000 Hull ( if you got for build in RB ) ?

If it's between building in shield shunt and not using reinforced at all versus using shield shunt and building in reinforced hull, I'd go with reinforced hull. I highly doubt 262 armor is going to give you as much value as 8000 hull.
But, onslaught easily has enough op to have reinforced hull and build in shield shunt. This shouldn't really be a choice to begin with I think.

[PsychoThruster]

Personally I think hull mods in general are handled poorly. From a narrative perspective half of them are ridiculous in that they can be swapped in and out.

"Hey engineer, I decided reinforced bulkheads need to go, please cut them out to make room for a better targeting system."

"... But admiral, these systems are entirely unrelated, why would stronger bulkheads impede better targeting software?"

I doubt it's on the table but I'd like to see OP go away and to have a slot system much like eve online.

Story points seem like a good idea on paper but they both come too often to be special, yet have been tied into so many systems at this point that reducing their frequency would really muck up balance. They serve as a stand in for a charisma skill, a piloting skill/maneuvering skill, and as a currency for upgrading ships.

Love the game, but really think the various points(OP and SP) driving balance need to be reconsidered to see if a better method is possible.

[Princess of Evil]

Every system you put into a ship needs space to actually exist. Where was a micro-forge making bulkheads is now a targeting computer. Not to mention that the bulkheads are good enough to add *40%* health to the ship.

[PsychoThruster]

Every system you put into a ship needs space to actually exist. Where was a micro-forge making bulkheads is now a targeting computer. Not to mention that the bulkheads are good enough to add *40%* health to the ship.

I like the game too, but that doesn't mean you have to jump to irrational arguments to justify certain systems. For example in the real world a facility that produces 1/4 inch steel is identical to the facility that produces 1 inch steel because it's the same facility. The press that cuts the steel is the same press, and all of this assumes the ship taking reinforced bulkheads necessitates adding a "forge" instead of it being a drydock operation. But let's say you're right, there's no way in holy guacamole that a targeting computer takes up more space than a "forge", but the OP costs would indicate otherwise.

The fact is that the cost of every mod is entirely dictated by its performance boosting potential and has nothing to do with any narrative factor.

I'm not arguing it should be otherwise currently, I just think there are ways to do both and something like the system eve utilizes is a good starting point, and more importantly would make ship builds overall a ton more interesting.