Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Planet Search Overhaul (07/13/24)

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7

Author Topic: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora  (Read 4101 times)

Juno

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« on: May 25, 2024, 07:23:39 AM »

I saw old videos of Odysseys rocking (5 Odysseys against 5 Ordos and stuff) and tried to make it work. Hard. It just doesn't.

With its terrible damage to shield ratio (literally one of the worst in game atm), paper thin hull, weird turret placements, and anemic fighters, all it does is plasma burn into enemy and dies pathetically.

I tried it with shotgun builds, long range builds, tried to make it tanky, or make it more shooty - in the end it's terrible ether way.
I feel much stronger and safer piloting SO Aurora, than this junk.

What happened to that ship, and is there anything that can be done to restore it to at least some partial glory?
Atm its the most pathetic Battlecruiser out there, maybe next worst after Retribution, and thats saying a lot.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 07:30:33 AM by Juno »
Logged

SCC

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 4186
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2024, 07:34:29 AM »

With its terrible damage to shield ratio (literally one of the worst in game atm), paper thin hull, weird turret placements, and anemic fighters, all it does is plasma burn into enemy and dies pathetically.
Sounds like nothing's changed.

prav

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 435
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2024, 07:39:35 AM »

Bring back HEF double tachlances.
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2024, 07:59:29 AM »

I feel much stronger and safer piloting SO Aurora, than this junk.
Well that figures, any SO ship is going to feel much stronger than something else without it (even if it is bigger and more expensive). SO Scarabs faceroll anything that's not an armoured brick, what's your point.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1236
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2024, 08:29:56 AM »

if it comes to it vs Aurora, it's a very high difficulty discussion, cause Aurora is pretty much now one of the strongest ships in the game that is designed like a Remnant, especially after general flux efficiency buffs allowing it to host much more varied weapons than just typical... Missile spam.

Odyssey is good for like... I dunno... Take an Autopulse, put HIL. Get two bombers, with DTA or not... Then do a mega damage combo on someone's face with 3 Sabots at the front and just rip something in half. It will have trouble cracking open really tanky ships, but it has the stamina to do so thanks to its mobility.

If you feel like it's too weak, which I can kinda agree on, go to its files and change its shields from 1.0 to 0.8... You should do similarly to every other Battlecruiser in the game. With the exception of the Nova. Which you should increase its shields by 60 degrees instead.

Then it should be fine...
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 24513
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2024, 08:52:23 AM »

I feel much stronger and safer piloting SO Aurora, than this junk.
Well that figures, any SO ship is going to feel much stronger than something else without it (even if it is bigger and more expensive). SO Scarabs faceroll anything that's not an armoured brick, what's your point.

To elaborate on this, since this isn't super clear: SO is ridiculously overpowered and doesn't really belong in a balance conversation. Keeping it around because it can still be fun, but it's likely to see changes at some point.
Logged

Phenir

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 627
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2024, 10:27:42 AM »

I saw old videos of Odysseys rocking (5 Odysseys against 5 Ordos and stuff) and tried to make it work. Hard. It just doesn't.
You probably missed the part where they micromanaged the ship with a million orders. Like all battlecruisers, Odyssey is a great player ship but unless you really now how to handle the AI, it's not so great for the AI, especially in harder fights.
For general play, I recommend longbows with dta for AI odyssey. This gives it sabot spam that lasts forever, which fluxs up the enemy quickly, which mitigates the weak defenses of the odyssey. Longbow + xyphos is good too since the ion beam further reduces enemy ability to fight back. Also, sabots in the medium missiles, and probably squall for longer range kinetic pressure. Luckily, the odyssey has a strong flux vent so it can afford to equip 2x plasma cannon for extremely high dps. Mining lasers in the smalls. Odyssey has so many overlapping small mounts that mining laser is actually decent pd and costs basically nothing plus you have longbows and xyphos burst pds backing you up. If you actually invest in an officer and smods for it, you could also forgo pd completely and leave it to the fighters and just shield tank anything they miss.
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7375
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2024, 10:59:51 AM »

if it comes to it vs Aurora, it's a very high difficulty discussion, cause Aurora is pretty much now one of the strongest ships in the game that is designed like a Remnant, especially after general flux efficiency buffs allowing it to host much more varied weapons than just typical... Missile spam.
...

Could you share an Aurora build that works well? I've been playing around with one and it's been "fine" but not really wowed me (granted, I'm not using SO either). Not a bad "rush in with blasters and torpedo them in the face" ship, but a Dominator does that job better for cheaper, as it has more missiles and kinetics.
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 24513
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2024, 11:19:30 AM »

(Personally, I liked Mining Blaster + Pulse Laser + Ion Pulser / another Pulse Laser. And Reapers in the missile slots, Sabots for the back medium missile. Maybe an Ion Cannon or two in the small slots (depending on if you've got the Ion Pulser or not). For hullmods, Hardened Shields, Stabilized Shields, RFC. Built-in EMR and ITU.

This *really* benefits from upgrades with Omega weapons - Cryoblaster, AMSRM, Resonator. And I get what you're saying about the Dominator - but imo the Dominator is more of a commitment to a specific fleet strategy, and it doesn't have as easy of a time getting around the battlefield putting out fires.

Basically it starts out being more of an endurance fighter, with Ions doing the disabling, and being able to keep its fire up indefinitely, and the Reapers are there for the tough targets. I wouldn't say it gets amazing until you do get the Omega upgrades, though - it's just ... solid. But it works in fleet comps where I feel like a Dominator wouldn't. Not sure I'd get it for AI use in the non-Omega state, really hadn't tried that.)
Logged

Killer of Fate

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1236
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2024, 11:46:00 AM »

if it comes to it vs Aurora, it's a very high difficulty discussion, cause Aurora is pretty much now one of the strongest ships in the game that is designed like a Remnant, especially after general flux efficiency buffs allowing it to host much more varied weapons than just typical... Missile spam.
...

Could you share an Aurora build that works well? I've been playing around with one and it's been "fine" but not really wowed me (granted, I'm not using SO either). Not a bad "rush in with blasters and torpedo them in the face" ship, but a Dominator does that job better for cheaper, as it has more missiles and kinetics.
well, you're probably going to hate it but...

Aurora build:
Spoiler
[close]

Odyssey build (as an extra):
Spoiler
[close]

The key to making the Odyssey work, or even Astral for that matter, is using FULL ASSAULT to break the enemy formation and split them up. Then pick them off over time. Obviously someone is going to laugh and say "ha ha, no SO, you lost 1 ship, lmao, uninstall". But that's what you get for not just spamming Paragons and huddling in a corner.

Also, FULL ASSAULT is really important to bail out ships like the Odyssey. When they rush in and are being under fire, other High Tech ships have the GENIUS idea of just being like "damn, that Odyssey is dying... Better back off in case it decides to bleed on me", when they should be all rushing in and doing as much damage as possible. So, yeah... Just do that...

Also, the reason I tend to put a lot of EMP damage on my ships, like Aurora in this case, but I do this for Fury too, is cause I have a carrier heavy fleet (I mean, one Astral is already carrier have, the proper amount of carriers your fleet should have is 0)

Fury build:
Spoiler
[close]

And EMP damage helps deal with enemy PD, allowing bombers to land. Obviously irrelevant against Remnants, there Astral is just useless. But it's important against Hegemony, as otherwise their Devas and Flak Cannons will just clear out everything every single *** time. And don't get me started on the dumb *** Locust. And thank god Doom is as rare as it is.

So, you do Full Assault. Your dumb High Tech ships that are relatively tanky go up in enemy's face and start taking selfies with them. And then your bomber runs blow up stuff where important. With your fleet shock-jocking everything until it eventually gives up and explodes...

Guess that's the strat. Surround and attack, or don't even bother surrounding. Just full assault. Should do Reckless doctrine tbh, definitely giving TT Reckless in my balancing mod, cause otherwise there is no point to High Tech with that PPT.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 11:51:22 AM by Killer of Fate »
Logged

Bungee_man

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2024, 11:57:54 AM »

I saw old videos of Odysseys rocking (5 Odysseys against 5 Ordos and stuff) and tried to make it work. Hard. It just doesn't.

Yeah, those videos are from guys who are insanely in-tune with the game's AI and mechanics, and micromanage incredibly well. The Odyssey is famously terrible in AI hands, unless those criteria are met.

It is nonetheless a very good flagship against pretty much everything that isn't Remnants, and can take on pretty good-sized fleets unsupported with a decent pilot.
Logged

Selfcontrol

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2024, 03:10:16 PM »

The Odyssey isn't bad. The AI is bad at piloting the Odyssey. Unless you micro-manage it like crazy.

The Odyssey is probably the most powerful battlecruiser in the hands of the player. It's not weak. It's incredibly good.

The AI isn't good at piloting aggressive battlecruisers in general. Look at the Retribution and the Nova (it's the Odyssey but with an even more clueless AI). Those ships are good/very good, but the AI can hardly pilot them "right". And thank god for that. Fighting an AI that would be as good at kiting and repositioning as the player would not be fun at all.

Quote
(literally one of the worst in game atm)

It has a 1.0 flux/damage ratio and a 180 degree omni-shield perfect for covering it's exposed side since it's a broadside ship. Its shield is not terrible and it's not one of the worst shield in the game. By far.

PS : SO is overpowered and dumb and is one day gonna get changed. Don't get use to it.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 03:12:50 PM by Selfcontrol »
Logged

Juno

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2024, 03:36:56 PM »

Guys let me clarify - I don't pilot it, AI does.
Some of my fingers are barely working.

Anyway, in the hands of AI Odyssey doesn't rip anything in half. The way it feels is, the mere second anything targets it, it's fluxed out, overloaded (even with Resistant Coils, which for me are mandatory on any capital), and dies pathetically.
It's literally dead on approach to anything.

The one and only way I made it work somewhat is fitting all weapons at 1,000 range to force AI to stay safer.
Doesn't work though, even filled to the brim with Tachyons and Tac lasers it still feels the need to push that Plasma Burn button PEDAL TO THE METAL inside enemy fleet HERE WE GO.

Regarding SO - yes it is quite powerful. Tbh I would rather see ships dedicated to speciifc type of engagement, rather than having to blindly slap SO on anything that's not capital. Yeah, needs tuning :)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 05:32:05 PM by Juno »
Logged

Thaago

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 7375
  • Harpoon Affectionado
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2024, 03:42:24 PM »

(Personally, I liked Mining Blaster + Pulse Laser + Ion Pulser / another Pulse Laser. And Reapers in the missile slots, Sabots for the back medium missile. Maybe an Ion Cannon or two in the small slots (depending on if you've got the Ion Pulser or not). For hullmods, Hardened Shields, Stabilized Shields, RFC. Built-in EMR and ITU.

This *really* benefits from upgrades with Omega weapons - Cryoblaster, AMSRM, Resonator. And I get what you're saying about the Dominator - but imo the Dominator is more of a commitment to a specific fleet strategy, and it doesn't have as easy of a time getting around the battlefield putting out fires.

Basically it starts out being more of an endurance fighter, with Ions doing the disabling, and being able to keep its fire up indefinitely, and the Reapers are there for the tough targets. I wouldn't say it gets amazing until you do get the Omega upgrades, though - it's just ... solid. But it works in fleet comps where I feel like a Dominator wouldn't. Not sure I'd get it for AI use in the non-Omega state, really hadn't tried that.)

That makes sense! A Dominator is far less mobile, for sure. I'm using a similar strategy with the AI piloting at the moment with this:
Spoiler
[close]

(Before someone calls me a hypocrite for the bizarre weapon flux vs dissipation: built in magazines increases the flux load of the ion pulsers and the burst pd. It's still undergunned though, so I'm thinking of maybe replacing the front burst pd with another AM blaster?)

I'm not unhappy with the performance: stays alive, kills stuff, is a good complement of disabling and heavy damage spike to my line holding Medusas (dual autocannon + phase lances, so no missiles or ion at all). Combat results has the aurora pulling its DP weight: usually getting around 35-45 in 3-400 DP enemy bounty battles without the need for me to issue very many orders. That's a similar kill count to each of my 2 Afflictors, but I need to be giving them orders frequently to enable it, and about 3 times my medusas, which aligns with their DP.

...
well, you're probably going to hate it but...

Aurora build:
...


Seems like a solid build to me, it just fulfills a different role than mine because I suspect our fleets are different. IR pulses give flux efficient sustained shield pressure, the ion disabling, the phase lances efficient anti-armor burst. I think my officer has ordinance and yours doesn't, as I actually have 70 higher dissipation despite using 13 less vents, but you have a reasonable ratio of flux to dissipation (mine has too much flux).

I've got a bunch of omens flying around for pd, a phase squad for assassinations, and medusa for gun brawlers (very similar role to your aurora), so I needed something to go in and punch big targets in the nose.



On topic: I'm playing a high tech runthrough right now and plan on upgrading myself to a Doom, so if I find an Odyssey I'll try and build one and come up with something good. It's been a long time since I've built one for AI use!
Logged

Selfcontrol

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
    • View Profile
Re: Odyssey feels weaker than Aurora
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2024, 04:09:01 PM »

Guys let me clarify - I don't pilot it, AI does.
Some of my fingers are barely working.

Anyway, in the hands of AI Odyssey doesn't rip anything in half.

Yes. And I (we) told you the problem is the AI. Not the ship itself.

The Odyssey doesn't need any kind of buff. At all.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7