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Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

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Author Topic: Hypershunt tap problem  (Read 5497 times)

SCC

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2024, 12:15:41 AM »

You still get increased profits from exporting 10 units of transplutonics.

Juno

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2024, 05:40:14 PM »

You still get increased profits from exporting 10 units of transplutonics.

I'd rather export those to my space forges tbh.
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Phenir

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2024, 07:46:31 PM »

That's the thing, though. Once you get to 10 transplutonics, you get the profit from them, your forges are happy, and so is your tap, all at once. You don't "pay" 10 transplutonics.
Funnily, the lamp is probably most useful on the colony fueling itself as ice giants tend to be the ones with plentiful volatiles and the lamp will usually cut off 100% hazard. On a planet where most of the hazard is from those two conditions, it ends up fairly low hazard. Might even end up 100% hazard.
Speaking of which, I think the maximum output you can reach is exactly 10. A size 6 colony produces 4 transplutonics. Any planet with no atmosphere can use a catalytic core to boost output by 3. Add 1 each for admin, alpha core, and spending story points to "improve" the industry. It's still way too much effort for one extra industry, but you never have to worry about a stability penalty.
You can use a gamma core to reduce the requirement to 9 as well.
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Juno

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2024, 10:52:53 PM »

That's the thing, though. Once you get to 10 transplutonics, you get the profit from them, your forges are happy, and so is your tap, all at once. You don't "pay" 10 transplutonics.
Funnily, the lamp is probably most useful on the colony fueling itself as ice giants tend to be the ones with plentiful volatiles and the lamp will usually cut off 100% hazard. On a planet where most of the hazard is from those two conditions, it ends up fairly low hazard. Might even end up 100% hazard.
Speaking of which, I think the maximum output you can reach is exactly 10. A size 6 colony produces 4 transplutonics. Any planet with no atmosphere can use a catalytic core to boost output by 3. Add 1 each for admin, alpha core, and spending story points to "improve" the industry. It's still way too much effort for one extra industry, but you never have to worry about a stability penalty.
You can use a gamma core to reduce the requirement to 9 as well.

So what's the consensus?
Is the Fusion flashlight worth using or not?
Even with almost permanent lack of volatile supply?
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Amoebka

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2024, 11:52:48 PM »

Lamp is good because it still provides a (smaller) free upside even if not fully supplied.

Tap is awful unless you stack the entire production chain on one size 6 planet, because disruptions are too common.

Cryosleeper is awful because the halved bonus isn't worth the upkeep, and disruptions are too common.

Disruptions happening magically with no way to prevent them is a lame and stupid game mechanic in general.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2024, 02:31:14 AM »

Lamp is good because it still provides a (smaller) free upside even if not fully supplied.

Tap is awful unless you stack the entire production chain on one size 6 planet, because disruptions are too common.

Cryosleeper is awful because the halved bonus isn't worth the upkeep, and disruptions are too common.

Disruptions happening magically with no way to prevent them is a lame and stupid game mechanic in general.
Cryosleeper is ridiculously powerful, because all you have to do is to keep a trade route with a Hegemony world and a Gamma core, I don't know what happened, but toxic worlds are no longer necessary to run it. You can just get it to run the normal way.
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Amoebka

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2024, 03:31:56 AM »

And then Hegemony goes to war with someone, Jangala's accessibility drops below 90% as a result, and your cryorevival has a global shortage for the next 1.5 years.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2024, 03:49:22 AM »

And then Hegemony goes to war with someone, Jangala's accessibility drops below 90% as a result, and your cryorevival has a global shortage for the next 1.5 years.
1.5 years? Well, there is Gilead then.

In my experience hostilities last like a month.
Plus, look... I think something has been done to organic making, because this doesn't feel normal.

Spoiler
[close]

[ignore the low income, I did some settings.json changes]
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Phenir

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2024, 06:30:31 PM »

Plus, look... I think something has been done to organic making, because this doesn't feel normal.

Spoiler
[close]

[ignore the low income, I did some settings.json changes]
Organics are 1:1 with colony size, +1 from admin, +2 from condition. That's 9. Nothing mysterious here. Rare ores and volatiles are the ones that produce less than colony size.
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SCC

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2024, 10:03:47 PM »

I'd rather export those to my space forges tbh.
But you do. There is no internal trade. You can only export to the global market and you can only import from the global market.

Juno

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2024, 07:10:50 AM »

I'd rather export those to my space forges tbh.
But you do. There is no internal trade. You can only export to the global market and you can only import from the global market.

Okay so then the global market is impotent to supply 10 transplutonics?
Just my planets alone jam about 5 refineries

Same problem Fusion Lamp -- always not enough volatiles, even though just me alone got 4 gas giants farming it.

Same problem Cryo Revival - insane demand is never met. I settle new system I build those on every planet.

These resource demands need to be looked at :((
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2024, 07:26:44 AM »

Plus, look... I think something has been done to organic making, because this doesn't feel normal.

Spoiler
[close]

[ignore the low income, I did some settings.json changes]
Organics are 1:1 with colony size, +1 from admin, +2 from condition. That's 9. Nothing mysterious here. Rare ores and volatiles are the ones that produce less than colony size.
So, toxic planets are useless. Noted. Time to go back in time and punch that guy in the face who told me otherwise... Just kidding...
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SCC

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2024, 09:22:44 AM »

Okay so then the global market is impotent to supply 10 transplutonics?
Just my planets alone jam about 5 refineries
Yes. It is indeed impossible for the global market to find a 10 supply transplutonic exporter, if there is no such a exporter.

Aeson

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2024, 12:27:01 PM »

Every unit higher is meant to represent 10x the production in universe.
The game's actually a bit mixed on that front; order-of-magnitude production numbers make sense when trying to justify why two worlds that each produce 5 of a given thing are unable to supply a single world that requires six of that thing but are difficult to reconcile with market share being more or less [local production] / [sector production], especially in markets where something like a quantity-vs-quality tradeoff is unlikely (my size-3 Ore outpost probably isn't producing such pure ore that it's selling for enough to outweigh a several-orders-of-magnitude difference in production volume, for instance).

So, toxic planets are useless.
I wouldn't say that; Toxic worlds are one of the few non-Habitable types that can have Organics, +50 Hazard Rating for Toxic Atmosphere isn't actually that bad unless it's stacking with a couple other bad modifiers, and you don't need to use colony items to make a colony profitable. Furthermore, even considering colony items, Toxic worlds aren't especially bad - with how picky Soil Nanites are, three industries compatible with colony items is usually about as good as you can expect for anything that isn't an airless rock, and there's also a decent argument for only putting a single item on each colony since Luddic Path cells are annoying and a couple developed colonies give you more money than you'll actually need anyways.

The problem with Toxic worlds as colonization candidates isn't that they're "useless" but rather that they rarely have resource deposits particularly worth exploiting and (unlike gas giants, habitables, and airless rocks) aren't uniquely suited to any of the current colony items, so they usually just aren't that attractive as colonization candidates unless you have an Autonomous Mantle Bore and they have all three of Ore, Organics, and Rare Ore.
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robepriority

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Re: Hypershunt tap problem
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2024, 01:31:40 PM »

The biggest issue is that getting the logistics for a hypershunt basically guarantees you don't need one.
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