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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Anubis-class Cruiser (12/20/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.2  (Read 68424 times)

Wholesomeburn

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #75 on: September 10, 2024, 10:30:36 AM »

Loving the mod so far, is there compatibility between this and Terraforming and Station Construction? For example I wanna terraform my capital into an Archipelago world and so on.
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Azzarel

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2024, 01:57:31 AM »

Loving the mod so far, is there compatibility between this and Terraforming and Station Construction? For example I wanna terraform my capital into an Archipelago world and so on.

I am also running these mods in my current playthrough. From what I have seen so far, terraforming option only support vanilla planet type and market condition, so the added ones from Unknown Sky are not supported.
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JamesTripleQ

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2024, 01:59:30 AM »

Loving the mod so far, is there compatibility between this and Terraforming and Station Construction? For example I wanna terraform my capital into an Archipelago world and so on.

Glad you're enjoying it, unfortunately atm there is no TASC compatibility in US itself but TASC has some integrated  compatibility. This means you can terraform US planets (idk if it includes the ones I added in 2.0) to vanilla planets but not viceversa. If you want you can use the console to swap the planet type.
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Uther Phobos

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2024, 06:00:16 AM »

Loving the mod so far, is there compatibility between this and Terraforming and Station Construction? For example I wanna terraform my capital into an Archipelago world and so on.

I am also running these mods in my current playthrough. From what I have seen so far, terraforming option only support vanilla planet type and market condition, so the added ones from Unknown Sky are not supported.
You can add those options yourself if you really want to have them. But for now, until either JamesTripleQ or boggled implement it, it isn't present by default.
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tom

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2024, 04:55:24 AM »

Hey, great mod!
Just a thing, I have some planets that were generated with weird conditions that I would imagine wouldn't be possible in vanilla. Let me give you two examples.

I got aztlan's III-B from the vanilla core sectors overloaded by an hycean world that actually seems to keep the original's characteristics.
I also got a jungle world with both Hot and Mild Climate at the same time, I would imagine these to be mutually exclusive.
https://imgur.com/a/rw51Czi
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Dadada

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2024, 05:41:37 AM »

Afaik the planet highlighted in the first screenshot is not part of vanilla. III-B should be the ice planet above the first ice giant.
https://starsector.wiki.gg/wiki/Aztlan_Star_System
https://starsector.wiki.gg/wiki/Aztlan_Star_System#Zorrah_(Aztlan_III-B),_Rocky_Ice_World

Hot + mild and cold + mild are afaik (intentional) vanilla things, you should send your complaints directly to Alex. ^^
E: Lemme rephrase this^: This mild+cold/hot stuff is vanilla and I am 99.9% sure it is intentional.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2024, 05:57:58 AM by Dadada »
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tom

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2024, 08:22:34 AM »

Good to know, if it's in vanilla, there's nothing to complain about it here. However, the Hycean world in the 1st screenshot doesn't have a water surface that I would expect, or is it something coherent? I think the Hycean worlds were all water covered. It just looks like in has the traits of a rocky icy world or similar.
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Dadada

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2024, 10:32:43 AM »

However, the Hycean world in the 1st screenshot doesn't have a water surface that I would expect, or is it something coherent? I think the Hycean worlds were all water covered. It just looks like in has the traits of a rocky icy world or similar.
Edit: You are right, it is missing the condition.

Well, it does look like "Texcatlipoca" in your pic, right? I am pretty sure the "planet skin" and Hycean planet type are from this mod, so everything should be fine... Almost: I think the "Water-covered Surface" condition may be missing... If the planet is completely or almost completely covered in water.

Would be interesting to know what mod actually adds the additional planets to this core system, they at least seem to be rolled, I mean generated, with conditions from the Unknown Skies mod but I have a suspicion some other mod added them, and I never played "Vanilla Core Sector" with Nexerelin so I don't know...

Well, all vanilla water worlds look the same afaik (planet size should vary), just some blue ball of the same colour with some clouds, this one looks like a water world with different water colour to me, so basically normal, I guess the skin is just like the condition from this mod.
I think this mod also has an archipelago type world with some islands and a similar water colour to the Hycean one.

https://starsector.wiki.gg/wiki/Westernesse_Star_System#Fikenhild_(Westernesse_I-B),_Water_World,_Persean_League
https://starsector.wiki.gg/wiki/Askonia_Star_System#Volturn_(Askonia_II-B),_Water_World,_Sindrian_Diktat
Ohh, the textures are slightly different, interesting. ^^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hycean_planet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hycean_planet#Features

EE: Mmmm, water and thin atmosphere.....
« Last Edit: September 29, 2024, 03:00:13 PM by Dadada »
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JamesTripleQ

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2024, 05:11:32 PM »

Hey, great mod!
Just a thing, I have some planets that were generated with weird conditions that I would imagine wouldn't be possible in vanilla. Let me give you two examples.

I got aztlan's III-B from the vanilla core sectors overloaded by an hycean world that actually seems to keep the original's characteristics.
I also got a jungle world with both Hot and Mild Climate at the same time, I would imagine these to be mutually exclusive.
https://imgur.com/a/rw51Czi

Hi, yes something very interesting is actually going on here, see hyceans are generated by procgen but their conditions are applied AFTER procgen since they use a special condition pool. The bit of code that applies the conditions is inside a bigger section that ignores all non-procgen systems. This was mainly done for simplicity and to speed up load times. However it seems that some mod calls a procgen method on aztlan at some point causing it to generate more planets. If this happened during procgen then it means that my condition code won't run as aztlan is marked as not procgen. If this happens at any point after then my code has likely already exectued and the conditions will never be applied. On paper the best solution is to just skip the procgen tag check on my end and just apply hycean conditions to all hyceans regardless of system (though keeping a tag that prevents conditions from being overridden might be useful for modders) though I am curious as to what mod adds procgen planets to vanilla systems.
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Tranquility

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #84 on: September 29, 2024, 06:11:43 PM »

...

Hi, yes something very interesting is actually going on here, see hyceans are generated by procgen but their conditions are applied AFTER procgen since they use a special condition pool. The bit of code that applies the conditions is inside a bigger section that ignores all non-procgen systems. This was mainly done for simplicity and to speed up load times. However it seems that some mod calls a procgen method on aztlan at some point causing it to generate more planets. If this happened during procgen then it means that my condition code won't run as aztlan is marked as not procgen. If this happens at any point after then my code has likely already exectued and the conditions will never be applied. On paper the best solution is to just skip the procgen tag check on my end and just apply hycean conditions to all hyceans regardless of system (though keeping a tag that prevents conditions from being overridden might be useful for modders) though I am curious as to what mod adds procgen planets to vanilla systems.

Hey, just wanted to chime in on this. The random proc-gen planets in Core World systems are, believe it or not, a vanilla thing - as far as I know, nearly all Core systems also get proc-gen planets and terrain in addition to their usual features. The most notable example is the Duzahk system (the Starsector patch notes mention habitables being prevented from spawning in the system), but I also checked the Aztlan system in two separate vanilla saves, and those saves had differing numbers and types of planets within Aztlan. So, random proc-gen planets/terrain in Core systems is definitely an intentional feature in vanilla Starsector and, therefore, something that should be accounted for in mods.

Dadada

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2024, 11:53:04 PM »

You are absolutely correct.

So my thesis was: You are half or mostly correct but Aztlan stays the same, but apparently I just forgot or never even noticed...
->
My first reaction was: I have never seen Atzlan with planets after the gas giant with the 2 moons, so I tested it and boy was I wrong: Clean install in a new folder, vanilla game, so zero mods and standard settings (mixed, normal size). I generated 3 sectors, planned to do 10 but wasn't needed:
First one had Aztlan without additional planets, second and third try had different kinds of additional planets, many or all seemed to have Aztec or similar themed names.

In one try Magec also had an additional outermost planet orbiting the blue giant, just a space rock without atmosphere.

Note, and that I knew: Even planets which always spawn in the core may have at least different resource values, but while I do not know if the next one is true: I think at least the by factions inhabited core planets always have the same resource values, probably to keep the production values for the economy the same. <- probably more related to later player colonies and to keep some baseline things, like core always produces a min of X if not disrupted

I think Zorrah had in every try a different resource value. ^^

Boooyyy, I &%$!ing love the game for this. ^^ Some of the planets looked real &%$§ing juicy, can't wait to play the next patch. my_body_is_ready.png
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JamesTripleQ

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #86 on: September 30, 2024, 07:16:26 AM »

Hey, just wanted to chime in on this. The random proc-gen planets in Core World systems are, believe it or not, a vanilla thing - as far as I know, nearly all Core systems also get proc-gen planets and terrain in addition to their usual features. The most notable example is the Duzahk system (the Starsector patch notes mention habitables being prevented from spawning in the system), but I also checked the Aztlan system in two separate vanilla saves, and those saves had differing numbers and types of planets within Aztlan. So, random proc-gen planets/terrain in Core systems is definitely an intentional feature in vanilla Starsector and, therefore, something that should be accounted for in mods.

Ah I see, I'll keep note of that and implement fixes to make sure that procgen planets in core worlds get the right conditions. This does cause a bit of a weird issue where hyceans (that are internally marked as frozen planets but with the spawn rates of water worlds) can spawn in the core worlds meaning they could actually outclass some of the existing planets in terms of quality.
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tom

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #87 on: September 30, 2024, 09:21:57 AM »

Wow, this went into an interesting direction. Any reason why Hyceans are being classified as Frozen and then overridden? Even if the basic procgen mechanism requires you to hack something that makes useof vanilla archetypes and then overrides it afterwards, why not use the Water archetype as the basis?
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Dadada

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #88 on: September 30, 2024, 11:25:59 AM »

Once again:
EE: Mmmm, water and thin atmosphere.....
I did not study physics but I am pretty sure water world + thin atmo makes no sense.

Mods which add systems with "fixed" + potentially procgen planets are not affected?
The IX Battlegroup home system should be like this afaik: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=27284.0
These also add systems but I am not sure if there are additional procgen planets:
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=21418.0
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=21113.0

Awesome mods btw. :D

E:
... Hyceans are being classified as Frozen... why not use the Water archetype as the basis?
Same as my initial thoughts, but then I remembered the (turbo) greenhouse atmo of Hyceans, so it kinda makes sense? See the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hycean_planet

« Last Edit: September 30, 2024, 11:39:23 AM by Dadada »
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tom

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Re: [0.97a] Unknown Skies 2.0.1
« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2024, 11:49:18 AM »

Once again:
EE: Mmmm, water and thin atmosphere.....
I did not study physics but I am pretty sure water world + thin atmo makes no sense.
(...)
Same as my initial thoughts, but then I remembered the (turbo) greenhouse atmo of Hyceans, so it kinda makes sense? See the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hycean_planet

I actually majored in Physics but I also wouldn't know ;D, except maybe for the hypothesis that evaporation seems a lot easier. I guess it would depend on the planet's mass and its gravitational pull.
The Hyceans that are generated by this mod seem otherwise in-line with the Hydrogen rich atmosphere description, they mostly have "Plentiful Volatiltes" as a trait.
But regarding your greenhouse remark, why would Frozen worlds make sense for hidrogen rich atmospheres? I'm not really seeing the connection you're seeing.

The Aztlan generated one just has the traits of a regular frozen planet, it follows from the procgen algorithm described by James in his post.

By the way: check the screenshot, there's another planet generated on the Aztlan system that is identified as an Ice giant but seems to have the traits of a Gas Giant instead (no cold).
« Last Edit: September 30, 2024, 11:52:39 AM by tom »
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