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[ILuvLegion]

* The reward for winning is terrible.  Other factions' crises have much better rewards, except Pathers.

The reward for dealing with Pathers kind of has to be bad, or else you would have an incentive to not give them the item from the Scythe of Orion quest (in order to make sure they attack you). Personally, I kind of like the fact that the player is heavily incentivized to help the Pathers, because it makes not doing so a more meaningful choice IMHO.

Also, I think that the real reward from the Perseus League crisis is getting to use the fact you defeated their main fleet to get lower taxes if you decide to join them.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

No, the PL fleets are bugged, and they'll keep running around in system until destroyed. Whether that's because they're getting distracted or the script that makes leave is breaking is uncertain.

Did you have this problem on the latest hotfix? Because I haven't had this issue at all. Case in point:

blockade leaving after supply fleets are destroyed

https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxcfNjJx5JLXWi1_enLrS74y3gxjfpsBI_

[close]

I haven't with the latest. I have seen pirates from raids getting stuck however.
More than likely what me and Megas are/were seeing is more of the former, i.e. they're getting distracted as they are supposed to be leaving, but end up chasing random fleets.

[Killer of Fate]

I always felt like the point of Starsector was to make you miserable. Which is fitting if it comes to how you feel about the new update and its crisis events. Persean League bullying the player is fitting for their lore. It'll disperse any doubts about them being the good guys, because the game was kinda trying to make it obvious that the only reason Persean League exists is cause Kazeron is evil and strong enough to submit all the other governments to their control. And the whole anti-Hegemony narrative is just the Hegemony *** up during the Mairaath events and allowing various factions to start their propaganda machines to paint them as territorial buffoons...

Damn... Kinda sad that I burned myself out on this game, I would probably love this update. Oh, well.

[Megas]

* The reward for winning is terrible.  Other factions' crises have much better rewards, except Pathers.

The reward for dealing with Pathers kind of has to be bad, or else you would have an incentive to not give them the item from the Scythe of Orion quest (in order to make sure they attack you). Personally, I kind of like the fact that the player is heavily incentivized to help the Pathers, because it makes not doing so a more meaningful choice IMHO.

Also, I think that the real reward from the Perseus League crisis is getting to use the fact you defeated their main fleet to get lower taxes if you decide to join them.

No, Pather reward does not need to be bad.  With Pirates, bargaining with Kanta with gives a better reward than smashing the Pirate crisis, but the reward is still good either way.  I get only +10% accessibility for fighting them instead of +20% for amusing Kanta, but the reward is something useful and permanent.  Also, whether 10% or 20%, Piracy Respite also overrides Pirate Activity, and my colonies no longer take random stability and accessibility penalties from nearby pirate bases.

Winning the Pather crisis could give some permanent reward.  It does not need to be as good as giving them the planetkiller, but it should offer something useful and permanent.  Putting cells to sleep for a year is no better than blowing up a base.  I rather just avoid Pathers and their cells entirely and avoid fighting their whack-a-mole nonsense.

The only reward from the League if I have no interest in joining them is a rep boost with Hegemony and Independent, which gets wasted on them if rep was already high or I plan to sat bomb some worlds and lose it all instantly.  Also, rep gain is not as permanent or useful as the other rewards every other faction (other than Pathers) give.

[Ragnarok101]

I'm surprised your Penelope's Star colonies were bothered by the Persean League, because that system is claimed by the Luddic Church, not the League, and they should be trying to satbomb it.

Turned off the setting for colony testing since I wanted to see if I could recreate my old terraforming empire. Since I couldn't, next round I'm going to be rerolling until I get a busted Duzahk system, then get a Heg commission.

My beef with the Persean League fleets are that they feel disproportionate, and more like something a mod created, rather than an organic occurrence. 14 fleets is busted as heck and the fact they can't seem to keep order in their home systems but are able to send this massive military force to bully a couple of recently colonized worlds is just...odd.

[Serenitis]

Here's a rambling incoherant thought...

Spoiler

If you do absolutely nothing about the League trying to bully you, take no action whatsoever, the blockade lasts roughly a year.
So that's the timeframe this event runs on.
Why does it need to be front-loaded?

There's some scope with this crisis to pull off some "cold war" nonsense with slowly escalating tension, rising stakes, and the odd overzealous League commander that could be a nuisance. Or an opportunity.
And this could potentially be more narratively satisfying, and have a much lower risk of accidentally pushing away some players.

The blockade starts off with the enforcer fleets being given permission to act more aggressively - and gives a -10% accessibility.
Every month after that, if the player does not capitulate or make some kind of deal, the malus reduces accessibility by a further -5% and some additional fleets (of varying size) are sent to reinforce the blockade.
Any fleets that are destroyed are replaced by roughly equivalent ones, so there will always be a League presence of some level during the crisis.

If by month 10 the player has still not given in, the grand fleet gets sent, and accessibility is set to -60% for the remainder of the crisis.
In this context the grand fleet could be the the same main/command s-mod fleet from the current crisis, with a pair of smaller support fleets since it is no longer the whole event.

If the player beats the grand fleet - they win.
If the player never gives in and lasts the whole year - they win.
If the player reduces the crisis bar to zero at any point during the event - they win. (Caveat: Every time a League fleet successfully turns away a trader it adds to the bar.)
If the player gives in and joins the League - they win (but differently).

[close]

[Megas]

So… I think this might be a case of player effect where players are doing the things the league dislikes most, thinking that they’re free.

In the League's case, simply for existing.

Diktat does not like fuel, no problem, remove fuel production.

Tri-Tachyon does not like excess production, no problem, remove a few industries, and their demands were toned down recently.

Hegemony does not like AI cores, no problem, remove AI cores.

Pathers do not like tech, no problem, use less items.

Luddic Church wants your planet with Luddic Majority.  Okay, may need to reload before colony grew and replace Farming with an anti-Ludd industry.

League gives an offer you cannot refuse after your colonies grow big enough.  Reload before colony grew and remove Spaceport to stop growth.  This is one where simply existing offends the League.

Pirates are like League (want you just for living), but they are weaker, and even if you are too weak, it is a rare crisis where peaceful resolution (bribing Kanta) gives better reward than fighting.

Remnants want to wipe your colony out.  You had it coming invading their system like building one in the core worlds and aggravating human factions there.

[ChibiWolf999]

For me, if the game isn't challenging, then it, sadly, quickly bores me. Limiting myself to only salvaging ships, not using markets and colonizing high hazard worlds on purpose to need more money always made my playthrough longer, but it always lacked some end-game.
Seeing so many posts about busted multi-fleet invasions trying to attack your colonies? Not simply an unending spam that quickly becomes a chore, but a clear event with a big invasion at the end? Like a dream come true

There should probably be a hard limit on how many fleets can spawn, especially with Easy mode for new players, but I wholeheartedly support more difficult challenges if you want them.
If you only want a colony to stash items and have your own ship production, you can just stay at size 3. (I think? Is it still safe?)

[Talmund-Alpha]

For me, if the game isn't challenging, then it, sadly, quickly bores me. Limiting myself to only salvaging ships, not using markets and colonizing high hazard worlds on purpose to need more money always made my playthrough longer, but it always lacked some end-game.
Seeing so many posts about busted multi-fleet invasions trying to attack your colonies? Not simply an unending spam that quickly becomes a chore, but a clear event with a big invasion at the end? Like a dream come true

There should probably be a hard limit on how many fleets can spawn, especially with Easy mode for new players, but I wholeheartedly support more difficult challenges if you want them.
If you only want a colony to stash items and have your own ship production, you can just stay at size 3. (I think? Is it still safe?)

Imma be real wit you chief, you may have slightly more hours than the vast majority of people who play the game.

The rest of this isn't directed at you, and is more of a general statement.

I feel like the core issue we have here is that this game is... long. A single run can easily take 10-20+ hours to reach even the midgame, meaning that if you want to retain new players they have to be able to learn how to reach the end game and to a degree, shamble through the same things a player with 1000+ hours has to get through, but on their first run. A new player doesn't have nearly as much investment into the game as an old one, so if they get curb stomped (which is what seems to be happening as of .97) and their run is lost, then there's a decent likelihood they'll just stop playing. Easy is definitely a tone-down, but the core issue with the league crisis (The massive amount + size of fleets) hasn't seemingly been addressed. Until it's dealt with, threads like this will probably just show up again and again.

[Sinigr]

* Any blockade survivors must be killed because they do not leave the system and continue to cause trouble after the crisis is over.

You play with mods? Take a look my video. You should just punch a bit so others leave system. In video you can see that not all of them where punched, but blockade was over, you can see message.

No, the PL fleets are bugged, and they'll keep running around in system until destroyed. Whether that's because they're getting distracted or the script that makes leave is breaking is uncertain.

It also happens with Pirates and their raids on occasion.

So, maybe if player has good fleet, not some juunk, it triggers retreat.

[Phenir]

For me, if the game isn't challenging, then it, sadly, quickly bores me. Limiting myself to only salvaging ships, not using markets and colonizing high hazard worlds on purpose to need more money always made my playthrough longer, but it always lacked some end-game.
Seeing so many posts about busted multi-fleet invasions trying to attack your colonies? Not simply an unending spam that quickly becomes a chore, but a clear event with a big invasion at the end? Like a dream come true

There should probably be a hard limit on how many fleets can spawn, especially with Easy mode for new players, but I wholeheartedly support more difficult challenges if you want them.
If you only want a colony to stash items and have your own ship production, you can just stay at size 3. (I think? Is it still safe?)

Imma be real wit you chief, you may have slightly more hours than the vast majority of people who play the game.

The rest of this isn't directed at you, and is more of a general statement.

I feel like the core issue we have here is that this game is... long. A single run can easily take 10-20+ hours to reach even the midgame, meaning that if you want to retain new players they have to be able to learn how to reach the end game and to a degree, shamble through the same things a player with 1000+ hours has to get through, but on their first run. A new player doesn't have nearly as much investment into the game as an old one, so if they get curb stomped (which is what seems to be happening as of .97) and their run is lost, then there's a decent likelihood they'll just stop playing. Easy is definitely a tone-down, but the core issue with the league crisis (The massive amount + size of fleets) hasn't seemingly been addressed. Until it's dealt with, threads like this will probably just show up again and again.

What's there to address? You already have multiple ways to deal with the PL crisis, some of which don't require combat at all.

[Talmund-Alpha]

For me, if the game isn't challenging, then it, sadly, quickly bores me. Limiting myself to only salvaging ships, not using markets and colonizing high hazard worlds on purpose to need more money always made my playthrough longer, but it always lacked some end-game.
Seeing so many posts about busted multi-fleet invasions trying to attack your colonies? Not simply an unending spam that quickly becomes a chore, but a clear event with a big invasion at the end? Like a dream come true

There should probably be a hard limit on how many fleets can spawn, especially with Easy mode for new players, but I wholeheartedly support more difficult challenges if you want them.
If you only want a colony to stash items and have your own ship production, you can just stay at size 3. (I think? Is it still safe?)

Imma be real wit you chief, you may have slightly more hours than the vast majority of people who play the game.

The rest of this isn't directed at you, and is more of a general statement.

I feel like the core issue we have here is that this game is... long. A single run can easily take 10-20+ hours to reach even the midgame, meaning that if you want to retain new players they have to be able to learn how to reach the end game and to a degree, shamble through the same things a player with 1000+ hours has to get through, but on their first run. A new player doesn't have nearly as much investment into the game as an old one, so if they get curb stomped (which is what seems to be happening as of .97) and their run is lost, then there's a decent likelihood they'll just stop playing. Easy is definitely a tone-down, but the core issue with the league crisis (The massive amount + size of fleets) hasn't seemingly been addressed. Until it's dealt with, threads like this will probably just show up again and again.

What's there to address? You already have multiple ways to deal with the PL crisis, some of which don't require combat at all.

You have three ways to deal with the Persean League crisis, and currently they aren't good.

There's the option of directly fighting, which is what most people seem to take if they don't want to larp as the persean league. This option has already been discussed in detail on this thread as to why it's not ideal for new players.

There's the option of capitulating, joining the league and taking a reputation hit with everyone else since they drag you into wars constantly. By the endgame, expect most other factions to be in the red with you. This is currently the best option for new players, but as it turns out, people are stubborn. Starsector is an open-world game, so don't expect the playerbase drawn in for that to enjoy being pidgeonholed.

There's also the third, normally untouched option of just tactically bombarding Kazeron. From what I can tell, this is the second-best option for new players, but is still not ideal in the slightest, since the league will become hostile through this action, and you get no reward from beating the siege this way besides a return to the status quo (minus a reduction in accessibility since there's less markets to trade with) and I think eventually being able to join the persean league at a cheaper rate. To me this seems like the nuclear option, and most people don't seem to want to lose accessibility so normally you'll find new players who dislike/don't want to join the Persean League throwing themselves at the brick wall that is the first option (also you have to destroy Kazeron station which, as a Star fortress, is going to put up a fight, to say nothing of the fleets guarding the planet).

Technically there's a fourth way, that being to just wait out the siege, but if we're resorting to just pretending the crisis isn't happening then we have some major issues.

These are the options, and there is no alternative.

[THE SHAMBLER]

For me, if the game isn't challenging, then it, sadly, quickly bores me. Limiting myself to only salvaging ships, not using markets and colonizing high hazard worlds on purpose to need more money always made my playthrough longer, but it always lacked some end-game.
Seeing so many posts about busted multi-fleet invasions trying to attack your colonies? Not simply an unending spam that quickly becomes a chore, but a clear event with a big invasion at the end? Like a dream come true

There should probably be a hard limit on how many fleets can spawn, especially with Easy mode for new players, but I wholeheartedly support more difficult challenges if you want them.
If you only want a colony to stash items and have your own ship production, you can just stay at size 3. (I think? Is it still safe?)

Imma be real wit you chief, you may have slightly more hours than the vast majority of people who play the game.

The rest of this isn't directed at you, and is more of a general statement.

I feel like the core issue we have here is that this game is... long. A single run can easily take 10-20+ hours to reach even the midgame, meaning that if you want to retain new players they have to be able to learn how to reach the end game and to a degree, shamble through the same things a player with 1000+ hours has to get through, but on their first run. A new player doesn't have nearly as much investment into the game as an old one, so if they get curb stomped (which is what seems to be happening as of .97) and their run is lost, then there's a decent likelihood they'll just stop playing. Easy is definitely a tone-down, but the core issue with the league crisis (The massive amount + size of fleets) hasn't seemingly been addressed. Until it's dealt with, threads like this will probably just show up again and again.

What's there to address? You already have multiple ways to deal with the PL crisis, some of which don't require combat at all.

You have three ways to deal with the Persean League crisis, and currently they aren't good.

There's the option of directly fighting, which is what most people seem to take if they don't want to larp as the persean league. This option has already been discussed in detail on this thread as to why it's not ideal for new players.

There's the option of capitulating, joining the league and taking a reputation hit with everyone else since they drag you into wars constantly. By the endgame, expect most other factions to be in the red with you. This is currently the best option for new players, but as it turns out, people are stubborn. Starsector is an open-world game, so don't expect the playerbase drawn in for that to enjoy being pidgeonholed.

There's also the third, normally untouched option of just tactically bombarding Kazeron. From what I can tell, this is the second-best option for new players, but is still not ideal in the slightest, since the league will become hostile through this action, and you get no reward from beating the siege this way besides a return to the status quo (minus a reduction in accessibility since there's less markets to trade with) and I think eventually being able to join the persean league at a cheaper rate. To me this seems like the nuclear option, and most people don't seem to want to lose accessibility so normally you'll find new players who dislike/don't want to join the Persean League throwing themselves at the brick wall that is the first option (also you have to destroy Kazeron station which, as a Star fortress, is going to put up a fight, to say nothing of the fleets guarding the planet).

Technically there's a fourth way, that being to just wait out the siege, but if we're resorting to just pretending the crisis isn't happening then we have some major issues.

These are the options, and there is no alternative.[/size][/size]

So what is your suggestion then? All Im seeing in these posts are people disliking the options the game gives to combat the crisies (especially the PL), to me Tac Bombing Kazeron is the best choice both in gameplay and in roleplaying since I couldn't care less if PL is hostile to me since they are already blockading my *** system, if anything I always just declare war on the PL after the blockade because even if tritach was raiding my commerce or hegemony was looking for cores at least those factions where conduction "grey" operations, the PL tho is straight up blockading my system with one of their biggest armadas so that is an act of war in my eyes. If you people dislike this system so much you should provide some alternatives so the developers or maybe some mod authors can take inspiration.

[ChibiWolf999]

For me, if the game isn't challenging, then it, sadly, quickly bores me. Limiting myself to only salvaging ships, not using markets and colonizing high hazard worlds on purpose to need more money always made my playthrough longer, but it always lacked some end-game.
Seeing so many posts about busted multi-fleet invasions trying to attack your colonies? Not simply an unending spam that quickly becomes a chore, but a clear event with a big invasion at the end? Like a dream come true

There should probably be a hard limit on how many fleets can spawn, especially with Easy mode for new players, but I wholeheartedly support more difficult challenges if you want them.
If you only want a colony to stash items and have your own ship production, you can just stay at size 3. (I think? Is it still safe?)

Imma be real wit you chief, you may have slightly more hours than the vast majority of people who play the game.

The rest of this isn't directed at you, and is more of a general statement.

I feel like the core issue we have here is that this game is... long. A single run can easily take 10-20+ hours to reach even the midgame, meaning that if you want to retain new players they have to be able to learn how to reach the end game and to a degree, shamble through the same things a player with 1000+ hours has to get through, but on their first run. A new player doesn't have nearly as much investment into the game as an old one, so if they get curb stomped (which is what seems to be happening as of .97) and their run is lost, then there's a decent likelihood they'll just stop playing. Easy is definitely a tone-down, but the core issue with the league crisis (The massive amount + size of fleets) hasn't seemingly been addressed. Until it's dealt with, threads like this will probably just show up again and again.

Ah, yeah, you're probably completely right about the new player issue, they don't have information in-game how to deal with that 
A good stop-gap would be showing some warning screen when your colony is about to reach population 4. I'm thinking a screen saying "your colony is about to reach pop 4, if you continue it will attract attention of other factions, BIG BAD is about to happen".

An advisor that you promote/ get from a quest/ whatever could work too, with tips on how to deal with a Crisis when it's already FUBAR. It could even be a nice prerequisite to founding a colony, you need to get capable support staff?

[Megas]

You have three ways to deal with the Persean League crisis, and currently they aren't good.

I defaulted to fighting them since I could win.  There were too many, and I had to annihilate fleets I attacked completely.  Also, not nominally hostile is more of an annoyance than a help.  I want my patrols to dogpile invaders.  I could not remember if I could attack openly and use Ziggurat on them.

Joining the League is not an option.  I do not want to be one of their flunkies.

While I do not like the League, I did not want to ruin rep (and accessibility), so all tac bombing was do is make it more tedious to grind rep back up.  Also, I am not sure that would truly end the crises or just delay it until they try again.  Basically, tac bombing would be a bad option.

Waiting it out was not an option since my colonies were not close to core, and -60% accessibility was too much.  Had to get the blockade over with as soon as possible.

In the end, fighting and crushing the blockade was the best option.  I feel ripped off getting only rep from Hegemony and Independence as a reward.