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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); In-development patch notes for Starsector 0.98a (2/8/25)

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Author Topic: Built-in Drones should not be Fighter Wings  (Read 1922 times)

Death_Silence_66

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Re: Built-in Drones should not be Fighter Wings
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2024, 06:42:06 PM »

Instead of excluding specific ships or wing types, it might be a better approach to make the carrier skill tied to the Expanded Crew Deck hullmod. With this, you could specify which carriers would receive the bonus.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Built-in Drones should not be Fighter Wings
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2024, 03:00:38 AM »

but that would make it mandatory to equip expanded deck crew for every carrier, which is a huge drawback for ships with fighters that have relatively good respawn rate and battlecarriers
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Rudragun

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Re: Built-in Drones should not be Fighter Wings
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2024, 07:40:15 PM »

I agree and disagree with this.
I think the carrier skills should only apply to combat ships in the way Tactical Drills and Crew Training are already configured.
This way, you're not diluting your carrier skills by giving them to non-combatants. You could have the carrier skills apply to them by installing Militarized Subsystems, which you would already be doing for the boost from Crew Training and/or Tactical Drills. (If you're in Leadership, you probably got Crew Training.)
As it is, Tempest really does benefit from the carrier replacement rate skill (as do a lot of mod ships), and I wouldn't want it to lose this bonus. The buff to Tempest seems neat, but part of the reason for the Termination Sequence system was to make the Tempest less consistent while still having damage spikes, right?
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Talkie Toaster

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Re: Built-in Drones should not be Fighter Wings
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2024, 02:15:01 AM »

okay, but isn't you complaining about the fact that shepherd's drag your carrier skill is like complaining that you can't have a Radiant in your fleet, because you have 10 sentries? Like, why not just remove the Shepherds and Ventures. If you are doing this kind of character skill, then the solution is to just tweak yourself rather than the game. Like, a better example of this would be you using Gremlins along a Doom. And saying that Gremlins are such bad phase ships that they shouldn't take the phase thingy. Like... Shepherds are carriers. Tempests aren't, cause Tri-Tachyon needs to have 0 in carriers and yet use Tempests, but whatever. They're supposed to benefit from these skills. And if they wouldn't, then it would be pretty weird.

Imagine a new player going like "omg, I'm going to take a Shepherd at the start of the game and take carrier doctrine, this is going to be so cool and weird" and then the game goes like "haha, nope!".
Because Shepherds are a logistics ship you'll never deploy outside of the first hour of the game. They have a role even in fairly late-game fleets as fast sources of survey and scavenging buffs.
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TaLaR

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Re: Built-in Drones should not be Fighter Wings
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2024, 02:26:45 AM »

I do deploy Shepherds a lot, even fairly late. They are easy to replace with pristine from every 2nd black market, not that sensitive to d-mod debuffs and reasonably survive-able.
If I want a pure cargo ship that never sees combat, I use buffalo/colossus/atlas (with augmented drive and/or militarized to reach needed fleet speed).
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FooF

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Re: Built-in Drones should not be Fighter Wings
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2024, 05:05:36 PM »

A thought occurred, even if it has some butterfly effects: Carrier Skills do not affect Civilian-grade ships (or count against the Wing cap). At least this is already in the game and doesn't involve a lot of changes. If you want these Civilian ships to get Carrier skill bonuses, you have the option of adding Militarized Subsystems.

Interestingly, this would mean "converted" ships like Colossus Mk. III and Prometheus Mk. II would not inherently benefit from Carrier Skills. Ventures and Shepherds would be affected. It would also mean that Tempest drones would also count as Wings. Another side effect: Converted Hangers on Civilian ships would also not be affected by Carrier Skills.

I think this could be telegraphed via the Civilian-grade Hull tooltip easily enough and in the Carrier Skills themselves.

(I'd still prefer Tempests not count as Wings, or perhaps get some sort of special treatment but I think I can rationalize the above idea a little easier than a special hullmod for built-in wings)
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