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Author Topic: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?  (Read 3108 times)

Cryovolcanic

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What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« on: February 23, 2024, 07:55:53 PM »

Large missiles are easy to utilize--pick a missile based on the orientation of the slot (backwards facing needs guided missiles), and pick a damage type that pairs with the ship's main gun (e.g., Squalls + HIL on the Executor). And Larges have plenty of ammo with an officer and/or extra OP for EMR on cruisers/capitals.

How should I use the small and medium missiles? The smalls usually only have 1 or 2 shots, and I often see the smaller ships just whiff their one missile shot into nothing. Then it feels like a waste of OP. Mediums don't seem to be much better, with only 4-5 shots unless you go PCL which was nerfed. But I know these slots are good, just don't know the best use for them.

On the Eagle/Falcon, I know Missile Autoloader turns the 2 smalls into almost a L missile. On the Falcon P, it's supposed to be a player ship so all the missiles can be ideally used. For Gryphon, I just copy that Squall/Harpoon/Breach linked build. What about ships like:

Enforcer
AI Aurora
Eradicator
Medusa (universal)
Brawler LP (universal)
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2024, 08:05:08 PM »

Large missiles are easy to utilize--pick a missile based on the orientation of the slot (backwards facing needs guided missiles), and pick a damage type that pairs with the ship's main gun (e.g., Squalls + HIL on the Executor). And Larges have plenty of ammo with an officer and/or extra OP for EMR on cruisers/capitals.

How should I use the small and medium missiles? The smalls usually only have 1 or 2 shots, and I often see the smaller ships just whiff their one missile shot into nothing. Then it feels like a waste of OP. Mediums don't seem to be much better, with only 4-5 shots unless you go PCL which was nerfed. But I know these slots are good, just don't know the best use for them.

On the Eagle/Falcon, I know Missile Autoloader turns the 2 smalls into almost a L missile. On the Falcon P, it's supposed to be a player ship so all the missiles can be ideally used. For Gryphon, I just copy that Squall/Harpoon/Breach linked build. What about ships like:

Enforcer
AI Aurora
Eradicator
Medusa (universal)
Brawler LP (universal)
For non-SO AI Aurora, reaper for the front medium, sabot for the back medium, and annihilators for the small. The AI spams Annihilator Rocket Pod which gives a good screen for the Typhoon Reaper Launcher to get through, Sabot SRM Pod is for anti-shield obviously.

"Medusa (universal)" That's the neat thing, you don't use missiles on the Medusa. Ever. Well unless you're doing some weird PD build, but that's what Shrikes are for.
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Brainwright

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2024, 09:28:10 PM »

I've been using the Pilum a lot more.  It's fun watching them swarm your target after being launched from some back line ship.  Reliable EMP, too.
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Wyvern

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2024, 09:36:55 PM »

The best, most consistent AI aurora build I've found doesn't use missiles at all. Requires an aggressive officer, but: 4x ion cannon, 2x pulse laser, 2x IR pulse laser, heavy blaster in the hardpoint, 2x burst pd (frontmost and rearmost turrets); leave the two side turrets empty. ITU, stabilized shields, hardened shields, max vents. (Though if you've got a spare resonator MRM, it's not a bad plan to stick that in the synergy turret.)

(Also, I guarantee you that someone is going to come along and declaim that a non-missile Aurora is terrible. There's always someone, and they're always so very certain of themselves. To be fair, there are a lot of ways to make a bad Aurora build, and if you haven't actually tried it out in-game, it's easy to dismiss the ion cannons as unimportant. That's why it has to be an aggressive officer, too: otherwise it won't close to ion cannon range. Can also be worth linking the ion cannons with the PD so the AI can't shut them off.)

Meduse, like Eert-def says, you mostly won't use missiles; I think the most I've ever gone with is a single antimatter SRM. Generally you want small kinetic-ballistics though.

Enforcers and brawlers I don't use; they just don't work well for me.

Eradicator is kindof to taste. Annihilators are pretty good. Hammers or atropos or sabots can be pretty good if the officer has missile spec. Swarmers aren't great, but have enough ammo to not just get wasted. Breach is a lot like swarmers, but can be better for some builds (for example, I had a mostly-punch-down Eradicator for a while that used 2x heavy autocannon, 1x dual flak, 1x railgun, 1x light assault gun, 1x light mortar - which fares great against frigates and destroyers, but needs help against cruiser grade armor). Gorgons can be pretty good too, especially if you're expecting to hunt mostly smaller fare.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2024, 09:45:09 PM by Wyvern »
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Goumindong

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2024, 10:12:48 PM »

So generally you do the same thing with large slots. You just get less value out of them.

As an example. The AI Aurora I use is 3 pulse lasers, 1 ion cannon, 2 antimatter blasters, 1 sabot pod (rear) and 4 swarmers (front) + 2 rear PD.

The swarmers are effective at pushing off fighters and provide non-zero long duration armor cracking (100 explosive per missile hurts!). The AMB flux dump. (I may move to 3). It can get into trouble Vs multiple aggressive [redacted] cruisers/destroyers but generally kills fast and effectively.

It also depends on what your fleet needs/can use. I find that atropos or reapers tends to be very good. The more mobile the ship the better reapers are (like… EMR reaper Kites are kind of hilarious). The less mobile and line oriented the better atropos/harpoons are. Harpoons have a bit of problem with all of your ships dumping them due to range which atropos does not. Edit: which is to say like medium range strike missiles.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 12:51:19 AM by Goumindong »
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Zenaria

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2024, 10:59:23 AM »

it depend on what kind of result that you want.

if you feel like it waste of OP mayb salamander cause it can keep firing nad might cause some serious opportunity

DEM missile like gorgon also good against small target but lack of critical damage for bigger one.
If it was design for hunting small target it could be a choice.
But DEM kinda powerless against strong shield

Atropos also a good choce for frigate since it cost few OP have decent damage and better tracking compare to harpoon.

and swarmer kinda like no brain pick. it won't go wrong but it won't shine either.

for AI aurora i didn't give missile on small slot cause i need a decent DPS on it.
but for medium i recommend proximity charge it won't give strong pressure like anni pod but it hit harder. (i put an ion pulser for emp)
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2024, 12:14:18 PM »

The best, most consistent AI aurora build I've found doesn't use missiles at all. Requires an aggressive officer, but: 4x ion cannon, 2x pulse laser, 2x IR pulse laser, heavy blaster in the hardpoint, 2x burst pd (frontmost and rearmost turrets); leave the two side turrets empty. ITU, stabilized shields, hardened shields, max vents. (Though if you've got a spare resonator MRM, it's not a bad plan to stick that in the synergy turret.)
Try swapping the Heavy Blaster with a Phase lance if you haven't already. If it's better or equal, move it to a turret so the Phase Lance can work as anti-fighter as well.
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2024, 06:58:11 PM »

Re: annihilators--

I see several of the Eradicator and Enforcer NPC variants pack 4x and 5x Annihilators in the smalls. These ships usually have EMR and have the Annihilators on alternating fire.

When fighting these ships, does anyone feel the impact from these missiles? The rest of the builds tend to be terrible (lots of thumpers, flak cannons and vulcans). I haven't noticed the missile impact from these ships, and I'm wondering if the missiles are bad, whether the alternating needs to be set to linked and put in a group with the PD to force huge barrages of missiles, or if the missiles and weapon groups are fine but the rest of the builds are bad (too little kinetic in most cases).

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yajusenpai

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2024, 07:24:50 PM »

You don't really need to fill every slot.
One or two shot are not likely to change much anyway.
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Phenir

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2024, 08:43:55 PM »

Re: annihilators--

I see several of the Eradicator and Enforcer NPC variants pack 4x and 5x Annihilators in the smalls. These ships usually have EMR and have the Annihilators on alternating fire.

When fighting these ships, does anyone feel the impact from these missiles? The rest of the builds tend to be terrible (lots of thumpers, flak cannons and vulcans). I haven't noticed the missile impact from these ships, and I'm wondering if the missiles are bad, whether the alternating needs to be set to linked and put in a group with the PD to force huge barrages of missiles, or if the missiles and weapon groups are fine but the rest of the builds are bad (too little kinetic in most cases).
Small annihilator has just a little too much spread for my tastes. They aren't really for damage though. Like said before they work good as screen for other bigger missiles. They also pressure the AI a lot, forcing them to keep their shield up even when they probably won't get hit. Those eradicators and enforcers would probably be better off with breaches. Cheaper and more effective when you don't have a follow up missile coming.
If small annihilator didn't have such a wide spread, it'd be pretty good for damage, 5x200 with 50 ammo. That's 10k total damage, more than any other missile in the same slot size, barring regenerating of course. Good alternative to the harpoon or atropos against slower targets buuuut the ai throws them out whenever it can even when there's no chance of them hitting, like against frigates.
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2024, 09:12:23 PM »

On the Eagle/Falcon, I know Missile Autoloader turns the 2 smalls into almost a L missile.

Err, what?
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yajusenpai

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2024, 10:47:12 PM »

Personally I use missile for pressure and they are good for that even when you have high flux. Missile cost quite a lot of OP and they just become dead weight when they are used up.  So ammo count are definitely a consideration. Having just one or two torpedo are not going to do much in the grand scheme of thing. And Expanded Missile Racks are pretty much mandatory if you want some practicality out of them.

So with my inexperience point of view: Swarmer / Annihilator / Sabot in small. Torpedo in medium. Use number to distract PD and launch the Torpedo.
Or skip torpedo altogether.
Of course modded there are a lot more choices. Ideally 1500 range anti-shield swarm missile + finisher missile.

I believe that missile had to be used en masse to effectively overwhelm PD. So we should use massed missile to pressure the hell out of a spot in order to create a local number advantage and then lanchester's laws the *** out of our enemy.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2024, 11:05:47 PM by yajusenpai »
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Beep Boop

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2024, 04:20:45 AM »

On the Eagle/Falcon, I know Missile Autoloader turns the 2 smalls into almost a L missile.
Err, what?
A Missile Autoloader on an cruiser with two smol missiles gives 15 reloads. That means your two smol Reapers carry 17 Reapers instead of 2. This gives you more Reapers than having a Cyclone Reaper would have given you (14).
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Phenir

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2024, 06:02:09 AM »

On the Eagle/Falcon, I know Missile Autoloader turns the 2 smalls into almost a L missile.
Err, what?
A Missile Autoloader on an cruiser with two smol missiles gives 15 reloads. That means your two smol Reapers carry 17 Reapers instead of 2. This gives you more Reapers than having a Cyclone Reaper would have given you (14).
Not quite. You get 15 points for reloads and a reaper costs 2 points. So you get 2 + 8 more. Still really good and better value than missile racks in this case.
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Megas

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Re: What are the best ways to use small and medium missile mounts?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2024, 06:28:56 AM »

If you want to try Gazers, Aurora has enough mounts to spam several at a time.  Every mount that can use missiles has a Gazer in it, and they are all Linked together to force the AI to fire them all simultaneously.  Do not use the autofit default of Alternating because that lets the AI dribble them out one at a time ineffectively.  You want several beams on the shield at the same time to overwhelm dissipation.  Get as many missiles as they can carry (Missile Racks, Missile Spec.) so that Gazers last long enough in a fight.

May not be effective against Ordos, but it works on human-level opponents.
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