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Author Topic: Grendel - poor bastard  (Read 1435 times)

Bummelei

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Grendel - poor bastard
« on: February 23, 2024, 11:37:50 AM »

Recently i've been messing with Wendigo, and i just don't get the purpose of this ship.
I thought it's gonna be a solid gunship, but it got Distributed Fire Control for whatever reason, and turtle speed on top of that. Retribution has an impressive firepower and "boom-boom-boom" so it can happily live with it, but Grendel? It slow as brick, it can't engage targets without being constantly kited, nor retreat.
This hullmod should not be on this ship, this a mistake. Let it go up in DP, by five, by ten, but let it have ITU. It just struggle to breath without it, and it's painful to watch.
There is just no point to have this instead of Eradicator at this point.
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Grievous69

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2024, 11:45:40 AM »

My fleet with 2 Grendels is doing quite well, there hasn't been a fight yet that I couldn't win. One is a Eradicator-lite for less DP and more distraction potential, the other is an armour tank which shreds anything smaller than itself. Although both have elite Helmsmanship, so that helps with speed.
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Bummelei

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2024, 12:07:54 PM »

My fleet with 2 Grendels is doing quite well, there hasn't been a fight yet that I couldn't win. One is a Eradicator-lite for less DP and more distraction potential, the other is an armour tank which shreds anything smaller than itself. Although both have elite Helmsmanship, so that helps with speed.

Would you mind sharing your builds?

I tried:
3 - Light Needlers
2 - Maulers
2 - HVD
1 - DualFlak
HeavyArmor, Injector, AdaptiveCoils for hullmods. All caps, remaining OP on vents.

Agressive AI seems too afraid to go on the frontline, and is constantly overfluxed.
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Grievous69

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2024, 12:17:29 PM »

First one built for max range
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Second one trying its best not to die
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Before I put on the Antimatter SRM, it had 3 Breaches.
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Euqocelbbog

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2024, 11:54:05 AM »

I haven't put the Grendel under AI control but I found it fun as a close-ranged SO build. You need all the speed you can get so helmsmanship is a must and building in aux thrusters increases the 0-flux speed boost that's always on with SO.
Spoiler
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2024, 12:08:55 PM »

Recently i've been messing with Wendigo, and i just don't get the purpose of this ship.
I thought it's gonna be a solid gunship, but it got Distributed Fire Control for whatever reason, and turtle speed on top of that. Retribution has an impressive firepower and "boom-boom-boom" so it can happily live with it, but Grendel? It slow as brick, it can't engage targets without being constantly kited, nor retreat.
This hullmod should not be on this ship, this a mistake. Let it go up in DP, by five, by ten, but let it have ITU. It just struggle to breath without it, and it's painful to watch.
There is just no point to have this instead of Eradicator at this point.

90% of in-game ships are a piece of crap until you put an amazing officer on them and then maybe install s-mods... But the thing about Grendel is that for some reason it's a cruiser, which really confuses me, but I can see why this has been done.

It needed a reason to have Distributed Fire Control, but this is a chicken or the egg situation. Because it's a cruiser it can have Heavy Armour of cruiser kind, which is a very large amount. But at the same time it would have cruiser's ITU, which would be a huge range increase. Which would make it kinda straightforward in design. So, Distributed Fire Control... But then maybe it was made a cruiser to have Distributed Fire Control, not the other way around. Cause you don't put ITU on destroyers that often anyway??? So, it would act as just a straight up buff.

Maybe just make it a destroyer and remove the DFC... But, eh... Who cares...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 12:13:57 PM by Killer of Fate »
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Dadada

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2024, 12:20:53 PM »

90% of in-game ships are a piece of crap until you put an amazing officer on them and then maybe install s-mods...
Not how I see it, but yes, officers and Smods make ships a lot stronger.
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Grievous69

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2024, 12:43:34 PM »

Maybe just make it a destroyer and remove the DFC... But, eh... Who cares...
That would make the ship more boring imo, it was clearly designed as a brawler. With your suggestion you'd just turn it into a phase Eradicator.
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Killer of Fate

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2024, 01:17:41 PM »

Maybe just make it a destroyer and remove the DFC... But, eh... Who cares...
That would make the ship more boring imo, it was clearly designed as a brawler. With your suggestion you'd just turn it into a phase Eradicator.

Not really, I mean you still wouldn't have the range aspect as prevalent as it is on an Eradicator, cause it's just a destroyer boost of like 20%. The cool thing about it though would be that phase hullmods, typical defensive hullmods, SO would be cheaper. So, heavy armour would no longer be mandatory, cause currently it kinda is, cause it's the only hullmod that (on paper) pays itself off. Other ones just kinda don't, cause cruiser costs. (Although I could be wrong about this).

It's just that... When I wanted to make a Grendel build, I wanted it to have a good phase cloak. So I wanted to give it Adaptive Phase Coils and a bunch of other typical nonsense phase ships need. Like Shielded Flux Conduits. But, you can't do that. The game gives you anti-ITU and tells you to screw yourself by forcing you into a heavy armour playstyle. Which, fair...
WE LOW TECH NOW, but also...


 :'(

ps. I just realized how freaking large and potent Grendel is, it's definitely a cruiser, nvm...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 05:48:21 PM by Killer of Fate »
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Dri

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2024, 09:40:25 PM »

I cannot unsee the angry face in the center of the large phase coils.
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Brainwright

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2024, 10:37:46 PM »

I mean, I just go for heavy machine guns, two assault chainguns, and a dual flak to provide the frag damage.  Swap in some light assault guns or dual light machine guns depending on what I'm fighting.  It's incredibly fun to lure things in, and with some maneuverability upgrades, it can get quite nimble at point blank range.

Eats stations like candy.

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[close]
« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 12:01:10 AM by Brainwright »
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Princess_of_Evil

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2024, 11:10:45 PM »

Poor bastard? Grendel is an AAF cruiser with five medium ballistics, that converge, with stats of a shield shunted low tech cruiser meant for actual warfare, and phase on top of them. For 18 DP.

Delicious Fire Control at that point is less of a debuff and more of a sign waving a finger, going "tsk-tsk-tsk" and pointing to Safety Overrides.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 11:12:21 PM by Princess_of_Evil »
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Megas

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2024, 08:20:04 AM »

What I do not like about Grendel is how AI can act so dumb with it in duels.  Makes AI Fury look like like a genius, and AI Fury is awful without the Safety Override band-aid.  I do not mind Grendel dying because it has Rugged Construction to mitigate death, but dying because the AI is so incompetent with the ship is frustrating no matter what.
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Bummelei

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2024, 12:29:26 PM »

I haven't put the Grendel under AI control but I found it fun as a close-ranged SO build. You need all the speed you can get so helmsmanship is a must and building in aux thrusters increases the 0-flux speed boost that's always on with SO.
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I didn't mentioned SO, because it is a legal cheat in our game. You can slap it on a bad ship, and it suddenly will become at the very least OK.

It needed a reason to have Distributed Fire Control, but this is a chicken or the egg situation. Because it's a cruiser it can have Heavy Armour of cruiser kind, which is a very large amount. But at the same time it would have cruiser's ITU, which would be a huge range increase. Which would make it kinda straightforward in design. So, Distributed Fire Control... But then maybe it was made a cruiser to have Distributed Fire Control, not the other way around. Cause you don't put ITU on destroyers that often anyway??? So, it would act as just a straight up buff.

Maybe just make it a destroyer and remove the DFC... But, eh... Who cares...
I see this like it has ITU before the release, but then for some reason (being overly powerful, or simply due to inconsistency with the original vision) got DFC, lower DP cost, and Rugged Construction as a consolation prize due it's inability to stay alive in AI's hands.
It doesn't need to be a destroyer to simply get it's ITU back, it will be an another nail in Harbinger's coffin, but what it truly needs to be it is a cheaper gun-oriented Doom analogue. To make Grendel a solid beefed-up cruiser and not just small cruiser wannabe with identity crisis.

Poor bastard? Grendel is an AAF cruiser with five medium ballistics, that converge, with stats of a shield shunted low tech cruiser meant for actual warfare, and phase on top of them. For 18 DP.

Delicious Fire Control at that point is less of a debuff and more of a sign waving a finger, going "tsk-tsk-tsk" and pointing to Safety Overrides.
Why don't we replace his system with a burn drive then? Most of the shieldshunted types we can see in the open nature has it!
On paper 5 medium slots and AAF looks rad, on practice tho it just doesn't work due to it's poor phase stat profile. And as i mentioned above, if SO is mandatory, then the ship has real problems.

What I do not like about Grendel is how AI can act so dumb with it in duels.  Makes AI Fury look like like a genius, and AI Fury is awful without the Safety Override band-aid.  I do not mind Grendel dying because it has Rugged Construction to mitigate death, but dying because the AI is so incompetent with the ship is frustrating no matter what.
Rugged Construction does not prevent D-mods on 100%, and it is a cruiser, so his recovery will cost player a real coin in comparison to Vanguard, or Cerberus. Without mentioning that Vanguard is simply more potent as a frigate, than Wendigo as a cruiser. And broken AI on top of that.
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Candypowers

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Re: Grendel - poor bastard
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2024, 03:47:06 PM »

Figured going for a basic ranged brick would be ideal for it since its Ai isn't the best sometimes. And going for vents seems better than more caps since it tends to waste caps doing nothing. That said, this is doing pretty well for me so far, though I'd switch gunnery implants for something else like helmsmanship or damage control if I could.
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