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Author Topic: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?  (Read 1699 times)

Cryovolcanic

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Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« on: February 22, 2024, 08:55:41 AM »

I know adjusting the faction's aggressiveness doctrine changes the personality of non-officered ships in your fleet.

What does the rest of it do? Changing ship quality, fleet size, officer quality? Emphasizing phase ships, carriers, or warships? I know this changes the composition of your NPC defense fleets around your colonies. But what does THAT do? If NPCs are fighting other NPCs with mass carriers, or mass phase ships, or tons of officers with junk ships, or pristine ships with no officers, what practical difference does this make?

My understanding is that this is all handled with autoresolve, so I would want whatever composition maximizes autoresolve strength. But do we know any mechanics on autoresolve?

In Warband, you can get NPC armies to follow you and do stuff. They don't always listen but sometimes they do. Is this possible in Starsector? (However in most Warband mods you only have a small influence on what troops your NPC vassals use, but in Starsector we have a great deal of control.)
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SCC

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2024, 09:23:37 AM »

To the best of my knowledge, only faction aggressiveness has a secondary function like that.
My understanding is that this is all handled with autoresolve, so I would want whatever composition maximizes autoresolve strength. But do we know any mechanics on autoresolve?
No one has done testing for that. Alex intended it to be the same no matter what do you choose. It's there to make you fight alongside whatever fleet composition you like.

Pizzarugi

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2024, 09:26:15 AM »

The "example heavy fleet" loadout in that UI should give you an idea as to what some of those settings do. Ship quality reduces the number of d-mods (red pips over ship icons indicating debuff) on your ships being made, fleet size makes your colony fleets have more ships, officer quality gives those fleets more officers with higher levels.

I think the purpose of the fleet ship type composition is meant more for if they get involved with fights you're engaged in more than anything. Having NPC allies in fleet battles can be pretty helpful, even if they're taking up the same DP you need for your own ships, because that means you're more likely to thwart whatever is attacking your colonies. I'm unsure what determines autoresolve strength beyond maybe DP values of ships, but don't quote me on that.

What I also want to know is how to utilize the "orders" tab in the command UI. I've been playing the game for a few weeks now and that tab has always been greyed out for me.
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SCC

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2024, 09:29:47 AM »

What I also want to know is how to utilize the "orders" tab in the command UI. I've been playing the game for a few weeks now and that tab has always been greyed out for me.
It's a placeholder. It doesn't do anything now.

Cryovolcanic

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2024, 09:35:48 AM »

Ok, so having specific compositions of vassal NPC fleets would be pretty useful if we could bring them to do things, maybe. In some Warband mods you can hire mercenary companies to augment the raw numbers of your main army, but the mercenary troops are generally going to be weaker pound for pound than your main army. However, Starsector doesn't seem to be balanced around the player side receiving significant reinforcement waves. We deploy 240 DP of ships and that's what we get whether we're fighting 1 enemy fleet or 10.

The game would probably have to be rebalanced if allowing the player to bring 30/240 DP of ships plus a mercenary or vassal fleet of another 200 DP was a real thing. (Is there a way to do this?)

Moreover, it would be interesting if these NPC fleets were restricted to default loadouts. That would increase the skill cap by rewarding players who know which default ship loadouts are better than others.
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Goumindong

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2024, 11:23:15 AM »

To the best of my knowledge, only faction aggressiveness has a secondary function like that.
My understanding is that this is all handled with autoresolve, so I would want whatever composition maximizes autoresolve strength. But do we know any mechanics on autoresolve?
No one has done testing for that. Alex intended it to be the same no matter what do you choose. It's there to make you fight alongside whatever fleet composition you like.

This may be true buuut. “Officer quality” absolutely beats the others once you have good sized fleets for the purpose of “fighting with”. Not sure about auto-resolve but it may there as well.
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SCC

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2024, 11:25:38 AM »

This may be true buuut. “Officer quality” absolutely beats the others once you have good sized fleets for the purpose of “fighting with”. Not sure about auto-resolve but it may there as well.
I mean in autoresolve. For fighting alongside, its best to focus on officers. You want as little DP to fight along with as possible, for a higher officer density. And you can get quality in other ways, unlike officers.

eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2024, 12:06:58 PM »

Max fleet size settings with a maxxed out HC will give you 11 Paragon detachments to ogle.
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2024, 12:08:38 PM »

Max fleet size settings with a maxxed out HC will give you 11 Paragon detachments to ogle.

Ogling is great, but can we use them for anything?
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2024, 12:15:25 PM »

Max fleet size settings with a maxxed out HC will give you 11 Paragon detachments to ogle.

Ogling is great, but can we use them for anything?
Yes, they kill everything by themselves while in system. Those fleets are considered 4 stars when compared to my late game Ordo hunting fleet, simply due to the sheer DP they poses. It's 660 DP + 19 other ships DP most of which will be cruisers.
Outside of that, I doubt it. I'm pretty sure calculations for raids, etc. use fleet size of the planets in your system + orbital defenses.
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2024, 12:17:39 PM »

Does that imply that setting max fleet size is better than max officers or max ship quality?
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: Faction doctrine tab - what practical effect does it have?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2024, 12:30:57 PM »

Does that imply that setting max fleet size is better than max officers or max ship quality?
Hmm, I guess I need someone who has looked at the code for this to see what effects system defense to be sure, as officers may weigh enough to be equal to max fleet size.
That being said Elite 1,000,000 Merc bounties are rarely more than three stars for any of my endgame fleets, and they spam level 6 and 7 officers. So, pure DP may win out based on how the algorithm calculates things.
That being said. If you have a Pristine Nanoforge on an Orbital Works being ran on a max stability world, you will always have on average 0 d-mods even with max fleet/officer size.
So, max fleet size and possibly max officers are always better than max quality assuming you have the infrastructure in place.
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