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Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

Author Topic: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff  (Read 3211 times)

ReshE

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Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« on: February 20, 2024, 01:00:23 PM »

Firstly, let me apologize for any formatting errors. I've been lurking these forums for years, but never felt a need to post anything. Part of that is that I'm not very good at this game (never beaten the [SUPER REDACTED], but I hope to change that this run!), and part of it is that my interest in games tends to wax and wane, so I rarely feel up-to-date enough to weigh in.

Until Now!

I recently started another playthrough on 0.97a. It's been a blast, but I have to say that my absolute favorite thing about this patch is the simple, elegant design of the Escort Package hullmod, and how it simplifies my fleet outfit significantly. So, I felt a need to make this first post of mine.

Part One: Low-Tech and Destroyers


I'm a big fan of Low-Tech; I like watching a hail of ballistic fire and PD fill the air (it tickles the part of my brain that used to nerd out about Naval History back in high school). In the past, however, I found fleet combat with Low-Tech, especially with steady doctrine/officers, to be finicky and obtuse. High-Tech ships often have high enough flux stats and/or speed that the ally ship AI is comfortable operating independently, without too much order micromanagement. I don't need to go into great detail because there are innumerable videos and posts showing that well-built High-Tech fleets (even wolf-packs or small fleets with minimal logistical profiles) can clear the vast majority of the combat encounters in the game.

Low-Tech, on the other hand, needed to juggle their relatively poor flux stats and mobility with their armor and consistent ballistic pressure. Low-Tech ships often lacked the speed and flux stats to reliably chase down frigates and other flankers without fighter support, and they struggled (at least in my experience) to keep up consistent pressure with their powerful ballistic weaponry while managing shields, armor, and (in many cases) venting.

Many Low-Tech heavies are vulnerable to flanking, and without some form of escort (fighter or otherwise), I often found my Onslaughts and Dominators breaking off from the big enemy in front of them to throw a few pot-shots at some far-off frigate it felt was getting too frisky. Steady AI in particular is very skittish about letting small ships get on its flanks, in my experience; this naturally causes them to lose focus (and the flux war), diminishing their effectiveness in large fleet combat and forcing the AI to make uncomfortable choices to back off and vent (often times it will not, as it isn't fast enough to disengage to a safe distance, and it doesn't like venting when enemy missiles or high-explosive weapons are in play - no matter how much armor it has, it loathes opening itself up to HE, even if it might be better in the long run). This makes sense - Steady AI has a propensity for trying to preserve its ship as much as it reasonably can, while still putting pressure on the enemy - it's not unreasonable for it to be nervous about flanking frigates. An Aggressive AI might push forward and continue fighting regardless, but an Aggressive AI will probably lose its ship more often, driving up logistical costs significantly.

Relatedly, Low-Tech (and Midline) destroyers, in particular, can struggle to really find an identity - without Safety Overrides they aren't usually fast enough to operate the way High-Tech wolf-packs do, and even with SO they often times still lack the tactical mobility and shield stats necessary to operate like frigates. On the other hand, they aren't tough enough or long-ranged enough to really operate on a "battle line". If they try and offer fire-support to cruisers or capitals, most Low/Mid-Tech destroyers find themselves blundering into the firing line just to get in range, often dying in the process.

Tl;dr: Low/Mid-Tech Destroyers are too big and slow to use frigate tactics, too small and fragile to use cruiser/capital tactics (at least in my prior experience).

Part Two: The Escort Order


In the time I've lurked here I've seen some consternation over the behavior of the "Escort" order. Plenty of posts discuss escort ships hanging back, not contributing to the battle line, or pointing their guns at some far-off frigate in a bizarre standoff (where neither side is actually in range of the other) while the capital they are escorting struggles to deal with its opposition. Often, I believe this to be a misunderstanding of what exactly an "Escort" is.

From my experience, Escort ships seem to have very strict movement restrictions (there's even a tooltip on the title screen about how the Escort order "heavily restricts the escort's movement"); this is fairly obviously meant to keep the escort away from the firing arcs of the ship it is escorting. Even in historical Naval battles, destroyers would never roll right up to an enemy battleship just to fire their puny guns at it when their own battleship is mid-combat; doing so would risk friendly fire, and its not like the destroyer's guns are going to make a dent in a capital. Better to let the big bois duke it out amongst themselves, and maybe offer some torpedo support if possible. The main function of an escort is to protect large capitals from smaller, more numerous flanking threats that the capital is too ponderous to feasibly respond to. This means that an escort should (in theory) concern itself with enemy fighters, flanking attacks, torpedo rushes, etc. The word "destroyer" even derives from the original purpose of those ships in WWI-era maritime fleets: "Torpedo-boat destroyer".

So, the Escort order in Starsector effectively forces the escort ship to stay out of the firing arcs of the main ship. This often manifests as the escort sticking to one side of the cruiser/capital (as in the case of most combat ships) or behind it (as in the case of most non-combat carriers). This also causes the escort to focus really hard on dissuading enemy flankers from approaching the capital while it deals with the enemy target.

But, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of ships we would typically assign to escort duty (frigates and destroyers) lack the range to really pressure these ships.

  • An Enforcer with Hyper-Velocity Drivers (HVDs) and Integrated Targeting Unit (ITU) has a range of roughly 1200 su (1000 base range for HVDs, +20% for destroyer-class ITU, +/- range fluctuations due to skills, ECM rating, etc).
  • A capital ship with large ballistics (Such as the Mk IX Autocannon or Hephaestus Assault Gun) and ITU has a range of 1440 su (900 base + 60% from capital-class ITU).
  • I'm not even going to bother mentioning frigate ranges. Beam weapons with Advanced Optics and ITU can reach 1300 su, but that's basically it. Frigate ballistics aren't really going to contribute meaningfully to most engagements. [\li]
The destroyer escort basically needs to run the highest-range medium ballistic guns with ITU to even get close to being able to engage enemy ships within the capital's firing envelope. If you can't mount HVDs for some reason (flux, ordnance points, not enough DPS...), then your engagement range drops significantly, and the escort can no longer meaningfully contribute to the battle unless an enemy rushes the ship they are escorting. They simply lack the range. This is why missile-heavy ships (like the Gryphon) and carriers with interceptors (a-la Drover with Thunders or Gladius') made for more useful escorts in the past. Missiles can shoot over allies and have fairly long ranges, making them the perfect tool for supporting a capital against another capital, while also providing the burst necessary to finish off enemy frigates that took a little too much incoming fire. Carriers can similarly provide support from behind their capital with their fighters, and also chase down flanking frigates with them.

On top of this, escorts have the prerequisite of being faster than the ship they are escorting; if they aren't, they will simply fall behind when their capital eventually kills the enemy its attacking and moves elsewhere. Speed and Maneuverability also help escorts take a more active role in the flux war - if the capital wants to back off to vent, it can't use its PD to block incoming missiles, and can't use its shields to block incoming HE fire. A maneuverable escort can (and I believe tries to, if it can) block incoming shots with its own flux pool while the capital is venting and can use its PD to protect against incoming missiles / torpedoes during this very vulnerable time. Slow, ponderous escorts struggle to fulfill this role though - they lack the maneuverability to pull it off. Low-Tech destroyers are also often too fragile to do this for very long.

Tl;dr: Escort ships tend to stay at the sides of the ship they are escorting so the capital can focus on the enemy capital without getting sidetracked by flankers or interrupted by friendlies in its firing line. This means escorts desperately need mobility (to keep up with their capital and maneuver where the capital need them to be, and desperately need range to be able to engage enemy flankers or capitals without leaving the side of the ship they are assigned to escort. This is why missile-heavy ships and interceptor-loaded carriers make good escorts, in my experience.

Part Three: The Full Package


The "Escort Package" hullmod is a huge step forward for escort ships, effectively fixing every issue I've personally experienced in Low/Mid-Tech fleets. From the Starsector Wiki:

Quote
When this ship is within approximately 1000 su of a larger friendly vessel, increases the ship's maneouverability by 25%, and top speed by 10%. Also increases ballistic and energy weapon range by 20%.
These bonuses are doubled for destroyers when the nearby friendly is a capital ship.

S-mod bonus: Destroyers: reduces the amount of damage taken by shields by 10%. No added effect for cruisers.

This fixes every single issue I've personally experienced with Low/Mid-Tech Escort ships, all neatly wrapped into a single package. Namely:

  • The range bonus from Escort Package combines with ITU's range bonus to match the ITU of the ship class you're escorting. A destroyer with ITU and Escort Package has +40% range, which matches a cruiser with ITU (+40% range). A destroyer near a capital ship has +60% range, once again matching the range bonus of capital-class ITU (+60% range). A cruiser escorting a capital has +60% as well. This allows you to run more DPS-oriented (or more efficient) ballistic weapons while still having enough range to both engage the ship the capital is engaging (basically acting as close fire support) or engage flankers from far enough away that they have to lose a significant amount of flux just to get close. It's like giving a capital a bunch of extra gun mounts that have their own flux pool!
  • This "range-matching" also makes PD more effective, gives HVDs and other "sniper-type" ballistics even more pick-off capability, and reduces reliance on fighters and missiles to fill in the holes in the escort's offensive profile. It also dramatically reduces the impact of the "strict" movement restrictions that the escort order imposes. Is the escort ship out of flankers to shoot, and wants to help the capital win the flux war, but can't close the distance because it would get in the way of the capital's guns? Not a problem! Just shoot alongside it, you've got the range now!
  • The maneuverability and speed bonuses make slower escorts (such as the Enforcer) able to keep up with their escort target easily and makes faster escorts (or escorts with hardpoints) significantly more effective in their role. Far less likely to get out-maneuvered by flanking frigates when you've got a 50% maneuverability and 20% speed bonus on top of all that range.
  • The s-mod bonus gives Destroyers half of hardened shields for free (or the entirety of hardened shields if they are escorting a capital, if I understand the interaction correctly). This helps immensely with their flux management, since they are going to be joining a capital on the battle line and they need every bit of flux they can get.
  • It also combines with the increased maneuverability to make destroyers significantly better at protecting capitals that want to back off to vent. The maneuverability and speed bonuses allow them to dip into position to body-block HE rounds and shoot down missiles with their PD, and the increased shield efficiency means they are less likely to instantly pop when they do body-block those HE rounds.

I have had immense success (so far, don't want to get ahead of myself just yet) with Enforcers and such with s-mod Escort Package. They can dissuade and even pick off flanking frigates comfortably, and when no flankers are present, they can contribute meaningful DPS to the capital-vs-capital flux war without needing me to give them an eliminate order (and thus messing up their positioning in the process). Naturally, Safety Overrides still offers more aggressive, wolfpack-leader-type bonuses for destroyers that want to do that (like SO Hammerhead leading a Lasher squad), but Escort Package really does allow Destroyers to act as efficient and functional escorts for both capitals and cruisers with no micro-management involved. All they need is a single direct escort order at the start of battle (which is when you're going to be giving capture orders anyway, so it barely even has an impact on command points).

Conclusion


I can finally use an Enforcer XIV in my fleet battles without feeling like I'm wasting the DP. It does something now! It finally does something now!

Spoiler
Oh and, since this is my first post, I should mention; I love this game a lot. Awesome work as a whole from everyone at Fractal Softworks. Hi Alex!
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Cryovolcanic

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2024, 02:12:39 PM »

Great first post. Welcome to the forum.  :)

Note on the damage reduction--I don't think the 10% shield buff gets doubled next to capitals. I am not sure about the maneuverability getting doubled or not. The range definitely does.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2024, 02:16:31 PM by Shade »
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ReshE

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2024, 04:03:18 PM »

Great first post. Welcome to the forum.  :)

Note on the damage reduction--I don't think the 10% shield buff gets doubled next to capitals. I am not sure about the maneuverability getting doubled or not. The range definitely does.

Thanks!

It might be a case of the wiki being out of date, or maybe I'm interpreting it wrong. I could have sworn that I saw a post by Alex somewhere in here stating that it was 20% shield buff for Destroyers near Capitals, though. Or maybe he was saying it wasn't 20%...?

I'd have to go digging to find it. Regardless, I still think it's a useful s-mod. Really helps a lot of destroyers that otherwise struggle with their shield stats to stay alive when near bigger ships.
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Siffrin

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2024, 05:58:23 PM »

Great first post. Welcome to the forum.  :)

Note on the damage reduction--I don't think the 10% shield buff gets doubled next to capitals. I am not sure about the maneuverability getting doubled or not. The range definitely does.

Thanks!

It might be a case of the wiki being out of date, or maybe I'm interpreting it wrong. I could have sworn that I saw a post by Alex somewhere in here stating that it was 20% shield buff for Destroyers near Capitals, though. Or maybe he was saying it wasn't 20%...?

I'd have to go digging to find it. Regardless, I still think it's a useful s-mod. Really helps a lot of destroyers that otherwise struggle with their shield stats to stay alive when near bigger ships.
He did say that in a Twitter post but I assume it was just toned back.
Edit: I found it on Bluesky because I don't have Twitter on my phone but the post was from December 2023 and it was an Enforcer XIV showing off EP with the 20% shield damage reduction.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2024, 06:04:57 PM by Siffrin »
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Alex

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2024, 06:17:44 PM »

The shield damage taken reduction is doubled to 20% when near a capital.

Edit: I should say, very glad you're enjoying Escort Package :)
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Talkie Toaster

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2024, 02:03:01 AM »

I can finally use an Enforcer XIV in my fleet battles without feeling like I'm wasting the DP. It does something now! It finally does something now!
How do you build your Enforcer XIVs? I've tried escorting with them and they still keep popping too early - presumably I'm overfluxing it.
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Thaago

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2024, 02:23:21 AM »

I don't claim this is the best build because I haven't tested them all that much, but I've been running S mod escort, 2x Heavy Autocanon, 1x Heavy Mauler, 2x vulcan, 4x reapers, ITU, Armored weapon mounts, and Converted Hanger mining pods. The rest go into caps/vents (lots of both!).

CH mining pods are surprisingly solid distraction/light PD.
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Draba

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2024, 04:45:21 AM »

Note on the damage reduction--I don't think the 10% shield buff gets doubled next to capitals. I am not sure about the maneuverability getting doubled or not. The range definitely does.
It might be a case of the wiki being out of date, or maybe I'm interpreting it wrong. I could have sworn that I saw a post by Alex somewhere in here stating that it was 20% shield buff for Destroyers near Capitals, though. Or maybe he was saying it wasn't 20%...?
When in doubt you can deploy allies from your own fleet in the simulator.
They raise shields to block friendly reapers and ignore friendly hellbores, so both shield and armor/hull damage can be tested.

The tooltip confused me, too.
It should probably mention that the 10% is also doubled.


CH mining pods are surprisingly solid distraction/light PD.
Once you are coughing up 1 DP and 10 OP for converted hangars wasps might be better.
Better PD, better replacement time and their mines maul mass fighters.
If you also want DTA it's 9 extra OP though, hard to tell if it's worth it.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2024, 04:52:08 AM by Draba »
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ReshE

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2024, 01:30:20 PM »

I don't claim this is the best build because I haven't tested them all that much, but I've been running S mod escort, 2x Heavy Autocanon, 1x Heavy Mauler, 2x vulcan, 4x reapers, ITU, Armored weapon mounts, and Converted Hanger mining pods. The rest go into caps/vents (lots of both!).

CH mining pods are surprisingly solid distraction/light PD.

Converted Hangars is what I ran the last time I did a playthrough, but that was before it was changed to manipulate DP cost when added. Haven't tried it since.

2x Heavy Autocannon feels like the play (unless you want to run 2x HVD 1x Heavy Mauler), but it leaves the middle slot in a bit of a weird spot - Heavy Mortar is cheap but doesn't range-match the HACs and is kinda useless against frigates, extra PD (flak, dual flak, HMG) feels overkill and leaves armor damage entirely up to your missile loadout, and Heavy Mauler, while strong, makes it so the AI plinks away at far-off enemies with HE only sometimes - and at that point it might be better to swap the HACs for HVDs for range match maybe? That way you can plink away at people with Kinetic and HE rounds? I dunno, still need to do some testing myself.

The missiles... I'm at a loss on those myself. 4x reaper is good, but unguided torps on an escort destroyer (even with the speed/maneuverability buffs) feels weird, given how long it's going to stick around in battle. I've been mixing and matching Hammers, Harpoons, Sabots, Salamanders, and Swarmers (usually in a 2-and-2 arrangement). I haven't really found any one missile loadout that works the best, though I will say the AI really appreciates the Swarmers when frigates and fighters are plentiful. Salamanders don't seem to be very useful for an escort, although if I pair them with HVD it does lead to some hilarious situations wherein an enemy might get its guns disabled by HVD fire, and its engines knocked out by a stray Salamander. Sabots are good against Aggressive and Reckless frigates (e.g. Luddic Path); it acts like pepper spray, forcing them away for a time (though they run out quickly).

I will say that I think building the escort around the ship its escorting is probably worth the time spent - when I use it to escort my Legion XIVs, for example, I run 2x HVD 1x Heavy Mauler, since my Legions run HVDs on the front 3 turrets. If I'm escorting my Eagle XIV though, probably HACs instead, to range-match the HACs or Arbalests I tend to run on Eagles.

Note on the damage reduction--I don't think the 10% shield buff gets doubled next to capitals. I am not sure about the maneuverability getting doubled or not. The range definitely does.
It might be a case of the wiki being out of date, or maybe I'm interpreting it wrong. I could have sworn that I saw a post by Alex somewhere in here stating that it was 20% shield buff for Destroyers near Capitals, though. Or maybe he was saying it wasn't 20%...?
When in doubt you can deploy allies from your own fleet in the simulator.
They raise shields to block friendly reapers and ignore friendly hellbores, so both shield and armor/hull damage can be tested.

The tooltip confused me, too.
It should probably mention that the 10% is also doubled.


CH mining pods are surprisingly solid distraction/light PD.
Once you are coughing up 1 DP and 10 OP for converted hangars wasps might be better.
Better PD, better replacement time and their mines maul mass fighters.
If you also want DTA it's 9 extra OP though, hard to tell if it's worth it.

I've been toying around with Defensive Targeting Array as well and (while I am by no means an expert) I've seen some success with it on things like the Venture, where you're going to have mining pods anyway so might as well rely on them for PD and just fit as much combat weapons as you can. Not sure if its worth putting on an Enforcer though, given you have to sink OP into Converted Hangar and then double down with DTA.

Feels like if you're going to go for the "escort with fighters" route you might as well choose an escort ship that already has fighters, like a Drover. That lets the gun-focused escorts focus on guns, and the fighter-focused escorts focus on fighters.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2024, 01:32:28 PM by ReshE »
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Thaago

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2024, 02:47:12 PM »

I don't claim this is the best build because I haven't tested them all that much, but I've been running S mod escort, 2x Heavy Autocanon, 1x Heavy Mauler, 2x vulcan, 4x reapers, ITU, Armored weapon mounts, and Converted Hanger mining pods. The rest go into caps/vents (lots of both!).

CH mining pods are surprisingly solid distraction/light PD.

Converted Hangars is what I ran the last time I did a playthrough, but that was before it was changed to manipulate DP cost when added. Haven't tried it since.

2x Heavy Autocannon feels like the play (unless you want to run 2x HVD 1x Heavy Mauler), but it leaves the middle slot in a bit of a weird spot - Heavy Mortar is cheap but doesn't range-match the HACs and is kinda useless against frigates, extra PD (flak, dual flak, HMG) feels overkill and leaves armor damage entirely up to your missile loadout, and Heavy Mauler, while strong, makes it so the AI plinks away at far-off enemies with HE only sometimes - and at that point it might be better to swap the HACs for HVDs for range match maybe? That way you can plink away at people with Kinetic and HE rounds? I dunno, still need to do some testing myself.

...

It's probably because I was pre-endgame and not trying to fit under a deployment cap, but I didn't care about the DP hit that much. CH itself is better though!

I tried HVDs first and it just wasn't enough DPS to get through shields. The ships can't kite because they are tied to a bigger one (and enforcers can't kite anyways) and enemies kept getting in very close on their attack runs. Going from 274 to 428 is worth the range drop.

For the center gun, I don't really see a downside of the ranged plinking with the heavy mauler - it forces enemies to keep their shields up so slows them down on their approach, or it has longer reach vs a fleeing enemy. I might even try a mortar and see if it works, but I suspect that the mauler will perform better in this build.

Quote
I will say that I think building the escort around the ship its escorting is probably worth the time spent - when I use it to escort my Legion XIVs, for example, I run 2x HVD 1x Heavy Mauler, since my Legions run HVDs on the front 3 turrets. If I'm escorting my Eagle XIV though, probably HACs instead, to range-match the HACs or Arbalests I tend to run on Eagles.

I'm building the escorts to match my current dominator build, yeah. It's running 2x HAG in the larges, 2x railguns, 2x arbalests, 3x annihilators/reaper, so a very HE focused build. So the enforcers have kinetic focus (428 vs 120 dps split between kinetic/HE), with an armor 'cracker'.

For your case, I wouldn't worry about range matching, just whether something does the job or not. Enforcers with aggressive personality can and will move out ahead of their escortee, so if they are using slightly shorter ranged guns its not a problem. And in many ways its a good thing because it means the AI enemy will fire a lot in the enforcer which will retreat, leaving the enemy high on flux vs the cruiser/capital (which has been unloading on it without any incoming fire).
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ReshE

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2024, 03:01:19 PM »

I don't claim this is the best build because I haven't tested them all that much, but I've been running S mod escort, 2x Heavy Autocanon, 1x Heavy Mauler, 2x vulcan, 4x reapers, ITU, Armored weapon mounts, and Converted Hanger mining pods. The rest go into caps/vents (lots of both!).

CH mining pods are surprisingly solid distraction/light PD.

Converted Hangars is what I ran the last time I did a playthrough, but that was before it was changed to manipulate DP cost when added. Haven't tried it since.

2x Heavy Autocannon feels like the play (unless you want to run 2x HVD 1x Heavy Mauler), but it leaves the middle slot in a bit of a weird spot - Heavy Mortar is cheap but doesn't range-match the HACs and is kinda useless against frigates, extra PD (flak, dual flak, HMG) feels overkill and leaves armor damage entirely up to your missile loadout, and Heavy Mauler, while strong, makes it so the AI plinks away at far-off enemies with HE only sometimes - and at that point it might be better to swap the HACs for HVDs for range match maybe? That way you can plink away at people with Kinetic and HE rounds? I dunno, still need to do some testing myself.

...

It's probably because I was pre-endgame and not trying to fit under a deployment cap, but I didn't care about the DP hit that much. CH itself is better though!

I tried HVDs first and it just wasn't enough DPS to get through shields. The ships can't kite because they are tied to a bigger one (and enforcers can't kite anyways) and enemies kept getting in very close on their attack runs. Going from 274 to 428 is worth the range drop.

For the center gun, I don't really see a downside of the ranged plinking with the heavy mauler - it forces enemies to keep their shields up so slows them down on their approach, or it has longer reach vs a fleeing enemy. I might even try a mortar and see if it works, but I suspect that the mauler will perform better in this build.

Good point on the DPS disparity there. A lot of the fleets I've been facing so far are non-[REDACTED], and the loss of Kinetic DPS doesn't hurt as much when the enemy is just as scared of dying as your ships are. I did notice it against Luddic Path though - perhaps that should have been the indication.

Quote

Quote
I will say that I think building the escort around the ship its escorting is probably worth the time spent - when I use it to escort my Legion XIVs, for example, I run 2x HVD 1x Heavy Mauler, since my Legions run HVDs on the front 3 turrets. If I'm escorting my Eagle XIV though, probably HACs instead, to range-match the HACs or Arbalests I tend to run on Eagles.

I'm building the escorts to match my current dominator build, yeah. It's running 2x HAG in the larges, 2x railguns, 2x arbalests, 3x annihilators/reaper, so a very HE focused build. So the enforcers have kinetic focus (428 vs 120 dps split between kinetic/HE), with an armor 'cracker'.

For your case, I wouldn't worry about range matching, just whether something does the job or not. Enforcers with aggressive personality can and will move out ahead of their escortee, so if they are using slightly shorter ranged guns its not a problem. And in many ways its a good thing because it means the AI enemy will fire a lot in the enforcer which will retreat, leaving the enemy high on flux vs the cruiser/capital (which has been unloading on it without any incoming fire).

I'm currently planning to experiment with making a fringe-exploring "salvor" type fleet (i.e. Ventures as the centerpieces) and I suspected that Enforcer escorts might be good for this exact type of fire support.

The last time I played there wasn't a Pirate or Luddic Path Venture though, so I'm very keen to try those out. I never could seem to get a venture build I liked in past versions simply due to those medium missile slots stumping me - Annihilators seemed the safest choice due to flux concerns, but Harpoons felt more reliable (until they ran out, or the AI failed to use them because it couldn't pressure the enemy ship enough to get it into Harpoon territory). The improved escort capabilities might offer me an opportunity here to try that again.

The Venture (P) though - that looks like it might have some funny builds utilizing squalls and such.
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vuntron

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Re: Escort Package might be my favorite Low/Mid-Tech buff
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2024, 12:04:38 PM »

I've finally gotten to a point where I'm experimenting with endgame fleet comps in my current run and I have to say, escort package is really punching up. It's scary how well destroyers are performing, a base-autofit XIV Onslaught with 2 escort Hammerheads (2 Salamanders, a HVD, a Heavy Mauler, 2 Railguns, 2 PD lasers, escort package and ECCM with 20 vents and the rest caps) is casually stomping nearly every (human) fleet I've come across. I was extremely impressed by the Hammerheads moving to eat incoming fire on shields and rotating to use the PD lasers when the Onslaught vented, and then immediately returning to position, and the extra speed really lets them overlap PD effectively. I'll often beat 2:1 or even 3:1 DP ratio fleets with 0 crew losses. 3 ships! It may actually be overtuned. I haven't noticed any enemy ships using the hullmod yet, but I'm pretty scared of when I do, honestly.

It feels like a whole new facet of ship builds have opened up and I'm already considering silly builds.
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