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Author Topic: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.  (Read 4239 times)

Hiruma Kai

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2024, 01:45:11 PM »

@Hiruma Kai
What kind of loadout are you finding works well for Medusae? Also those shield numbers are insane.

Attached are images of the kinds of loadouts I've been initially trying.  I haven't done anything really fancy yet. They seem to kill frigates fine.  Debating whether I want the higher shield DPS (Pulse) or the better armor/hull damage (Phase Lance).  Probably should depend on whether I'm facing an Invictus or a Radiant I suppose.  Also wondering if Ordinance Expertise is really worth it for only 60 more flux/second.  I could imagine Helmsmanship or Gunnery Implants bringing a bit more to the table.

I switched to these Medusa after my Dominator heavy fleet just wasn't wide enough or able to back off from Remnant contact bounties fast enough. 

Went from NL Radiant, NL Doom, Legion XIV, 3 Dominator, 3 Omens to NL Radiant, NL Medusa, Legion XIV, 2 Dominator, 1 Eagle, 3 Medusa, 1 Omen, 2 Alpha core Glimmers.  Typically, I've been ordering the Glimmers to escort the Dominators (mostly to keep them from Fearlessly charging the enemy), escort the Legion with Omen, and Eagle escorted with my Medusa.  The 3 other Medusa often hang around with my Radiant (or vice versa) although without escort orders.  Since the change I went from, say, losing everything but the Radiant vs the 1 million credit Tesseract fight (that, was close, had like 30% hull left) to losing the occasional frigate.  And one out of position Dominator.

On the bright side, I feel like I'm sitting on more Omega weapons than 0.96 after doing the 1 million bounty and 2 Shunts? I probably should switch the Medusa over to using the 5 Cryoblasters I picked up, but wanted to test phase lances in the anti-armor job.

Current character build is 5 Combat, 2 Leadership (Coordinated Manuevers, Crew Training), 8 Tech (no Sensors or Phase).

And yeah, I agree Advanced Optics is a flat +200 range at the end of the calculation, not base range.
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Thaago

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2024, 01:47:07 PM »

Well slap me sideways and sugar my donut! Today I've learned a more precise definition of cumulative; I'd always used it as a synonym for 'combined with'. My bad!

This does mean that my new favorite wolf build is shorter ranged than I thought, if only by 20.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2024, 01:50:32 PM by Thaago »
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Amoebka

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2024, 01:50:50 PM »

You people are really addicted to vents, aren't you? 0.3 shield efficiency and caps are still unmaxed. 17 vents would be plenty for double phase lance.

Using a very similar build myself. Not sure why I've always put railguns on Medusa either. The efficiency is worse than needler/LAC, and anti-hull performance doesn't matter with phase lances.
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« Last Edit: February 08, 2024, 02:17:27 PM by Amoebka »
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2024, 03:52:46 PM »

You people are really addicted to vents, aren't you? 0.3 shield efficiency and caps are still unmaxed. 17 vents would be plenty for double phase lance.

Using a very similar build myself. Not sure why I've always put railguns on Medusa either. The efficiency is worse than needler/LAC, and anti-hull preformance doesn't matter with phase lances.
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Caps versus vents really depends on the difficulty of the opposition.  If your tank is sufficient already, then vents reduce how much time you spend venting or backing off to drop hard flux.  In a do or die situation or where tanks are getting pressured heavily, then yeah, I'd agree with you the capacitors are going to be better.

Early game I would tend to favor caps on a fast ship, but for a full 240 DP fleet, if they're holding up against Remnants, then it is probably enough.  I haven't had a Medusa die yet, so it is unclear I need to trade the survivability for time to vent that hard flux it builds up.  If they were dying regularly, I'd probably try a change like that, but for an initial pass, I tend to go vents to see if it's good enough.

As for Railguns vs Needlers, on something like a Medusa, I tend to to like maximum kinetic DPS in those 2 mounts.  Railguns have higher DPS than Needlers, although admittedly less burst, and less efficiency.  Although, in a direct comparison between Railguns and Needlers, since Railguns are 1 OP less, the net efficiency could be considered more like 0.838 vs 0.8.   Railguns means I can spend 1 more OP on vents per Railgun.  which means I can spend 1 more OP on Vents.  So Needlers at 25 Caps/15 Vents versus Raiguns at 25 Caps and 17 Vents, for example.  At the end of the day, the net flux per second is 40 higher for the Railguns, but they also do 17 kinetic (or 34) more shield DPS each.  Shrug.

The biggest real difference is the burst nature of needlers, which is a big plus I must admit.  If you can overwhelm a frigate or destroyer with the needler and phase lance burst, then I'd say that build is a straight up superior for small ship hunting.  It in theory lags a little bit in the cruiser and capital hunting department, so it depends on what you want to target.  Assuming you're hitting all the same spot (which isn't actually true in practice), Railgun + Phase Lance should have about 14% higher hull DPS against cruiser tier armor (i.e 1000) and higher assuming no skills involved.  Against typical cruiser residual armor, the difference between a Railgun and a Needler is worth like a 1/3 of an extra Phase Lance in terms of hull DPS.  Not much, but it is something.

Now the Light Autocannon is a different story, its much more efficient, only costing 4 OP instead of 7, but at 60% of the DPS.  Lacking equivalent range energy weapons, however, means you are limited to 200 kinetic DPS out to 700 range.  300 or 334 kinetic DPS out to 700 just sounds better to me, and a Medusa can support the Railguns or Needlers.  Now there is admittedly a lot of stuff you can do with a 6 OP and 140 flux difference.  I'm just hard pressed to think of what would help with the shield pressure in the energy mounts at that range.  Pulse Laser is one, but I can run that with the Phase Lance already with Railguns. You could buff the ship in other stats, however, other than long range shield pressure.  When running Light Autocannons, I typically throw an ion cannon in one of the forward small mounts, for example.  So I feel light autocannons are a lateral pick as opposed to a superior pick.

I mean if you test these out in practice, I'm pretty sure combat variations in just how the AI does things is going to be a larger variation between these builds, given we are talking 15% here and 10% there.  Out of curiosity, do you find the Front + Accelerate shields necessary vs just Omni with extended?  Dropping the Accelerate + full shield (vs 270 Omni) would buy you an s-mod and 5 OP, like Armored Weapon Mounts or ITU.  Do you find the 360 degree shields to be a significant improvement in the majority of match ups?
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Amoebka

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2024, 04:44:33 PM »

I really like 360 shields on Medusas to prevent them from getting chewed up by fighters, they have paper for armor. Since shields are dropped every time they skim, accelerated is a boon. It's honestly just insane how fast the full bubble unfolds with +300% speed.

This whole build is basically "monitor, but it can kill things sometimes". The goal is to soak up damage first.
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Rusty Edge

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2024, 07:21:32 PM »

You people are really addicted to vents, aren't you? 0.3 shield efficiency and caps are still unmaxed. 17 vents would be plenty for double phase lance.

Using a very similar build myself. Not sure why I've always put railguns on Medusa either. The efficiency is worse than needler/LAC, and anti-hull performance doesn't matter with phase lances.
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Help me out, how did Hiruma kai get an additional .04 knocked off? Is that from elite systems expertise?

So with 3 elite skills, you could easily soak up over 40000 damage worth of pure hard flux before overloading, neat.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2024, 07:25:15 PM by Rusty Edge »
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Siffrin

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2024, 08:04:47 PM »

You people are really addicted to vents, aren't you? 0.3 shield efficiency and caps are still unmaxed. 17 vents would be plenty for double phase lance.

Using a very similar build myself. Not sure why I've always put railguns on Medusa either. The efficiency is worse than needler/LAC, and anti-hull performance doesn't matter with phase lances.
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Help me out, how did Hiruma kai get an additional .04 knocked off? Is that from elite systems expertise?

So with 3 elite skills, you could easily soak up over 40000 damage worth of pure hard flux before overloading, neat.
Probably that yeah or it could also be Cybernetic Augmentations.
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Gods most reckless Odyssey captain.

Hiruma Kai

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2024, 11:43:33 PM »

It's a neural link Radiant build with Cybernetic augmentation and 7 elite skills on the character, for -7% damage taken on all officered ships.  Only leadership skills are Crew Training and Coordinated Manuevers.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2024, 07:06:10 PM »

Oh it is wild to see Atlas's actually deployed in combat for more than memery. Do the destroyers get close enough to them to get bonuses? Maybe 2 of those manticores in the screenshot are, I'm not sure.

Oh to be honest, they don't really do that much. It's more of a "might as well" thing, since I run 200-DP fleets instead of the usual 240-DP fleet, so I might as well as throw in my support ships since they're already in my fleet. They probably have some sort of an effect -- they also give me some ECM -- but not really all that much. They do provide some Daggers toward the middle part of the fight onward, which is a helpful addition, even if short-lived.

The Prometheus is not only faster but gives me enough OP to put in Converted Hangar with Daggers plus all the other stuff I want on support ships, so they do work better. Whereas I had to pick and choose a bit for the Atlas since it has less OP. Only problem is, I don't usually need *that* much fuel, heh.
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crvt

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Re: Escort Package on destroyers is hilarious.
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2024, 12:34:42 PM »

Would be nice if the manual escort assignments (right-clicking on a ship) counted towards the limited of expected assignments on the target.
E.g. if you manually put 2 destroyers on a capital, frigates will consider that capital with escort order unprotected and will flock to it and block pathing/not capture points.
But if you don't right click, you may end up in a situation where frigates (without escort packages etc) are escorting while destroyers (not built for speed) are going off capturing points.

Currently my only work around is to manual order everything to their job and that gets tedious.
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