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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); In-development patch notes for Starsector 0.98a (2/8/25)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 333019 times)

Bungee_man

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1350 on: March 02, 2024, 10:54:20 AM »

Except Pathers.  They still force whack-a-mole unless you give in and give them the planetkiller.  Avoiding the whack-a-mole nightmare (from Pather cells) is the only reason why I do not use AI cores, although I guess I can still use cores to build size 3 colonies after I defeat Hegemony.  (Pathers do not care about size 3 worlds.)

You don't really have to deal with them - they just launch an occasional attack, most of which fail at reasonably high stability. As long as you're not combining commerce and freeport, they can be ignored completely once you have the right infrastructure, and AI cores are way more profitable. Even with both, though, it's not a huge problem.

I would like ground defense rather than stability to be the key factor, just so that it has a use, but either way it's largely a non-issue.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1351 on: March 02, 2024, 11:27:37 AM »

You don't really have to deal with them - they just launch an occasional attack, most of which fail at reasonably high stability. As long as you're not combining commerce and freeport, they can be ignored completely once you have the right infrastructure, and AI cores are way more profitable. Even with both, though, it's not a huge problem.
It is the risk.  In my last game, I had 10 stability, and they succeeded on their first attack.  Fortunately, it just lowered stability by 3 (which I immediately paid 400k to Stabilize and reduce the penalty to 1) instead of knocking out a critical industry for several months.  Of course, I was unlucky to get hit on their first try in the first place (after seeing core worlds shrug off every attempt).

If I use Free Port only, I probably will have 10 stability after I get everything with no extra to spare.  If I get hit by a random disruption, I may lose stability as a side-effect of demands not being met.  Or I may temporarily lose my comm relay and the stability that comes with it.  At least crises no longer send repeat expeditions, we do not need to worry about losing our battlestation from periodic raids.  I know Pathers' chances go up if I cannot maintain stability at 10, but even at 10 they still have about 25% chance of success.

It is better than the first 0.9 where they just succeed when they attack, and they needed much less interest to spawn a cell.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2024, 11:31:14 AM by Megas »
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freakingcynik

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1352 on: March 04, 2024, 06:08:28 AM »

Hey all, hey Alex!

I want to share a few thougts after playing with 0.97 a bunch. I started with the usual mods, nex, indus, some qol, some factions, but seeing all the talk about the OP colony crisis made me go back to a full vanilla playthrough, to see how the balance was. I'm on rc7, so pre-nerf, if I understand correctly.

To make it worse for myself, I went for colonizing asap. Basically did the tutorial, hunted a few pirates for system bounties, salvaged a few combat freighters from them to allow me to explore the systems surrounding the core and went for that. So, of course, I quickly find a legion, and a decent enough planet to go for, which I do. I almost bankrupt myself doing so, but I'm still on like 3-4 officers, running a destroyer/frigate fleet with the legion in storage, so the stipend keeps me up just enough for the colony income to kick in.
I can just afford the mining industry, waystation and basic orbital station. I don't even open the free port to keep it really simple and low profile. Only pirates get interested in a piece of me.

At this point, because I'm still on a starter ~50DP fleet with low autonomy, I'm splitting my time between exploration/bounties and going back home to store loot. Killing the pirates around my system slows down the crisis progress, giving me more time for more exploration runs. All the while, I'm salvaging the best pirate ships I can get, slowly building a decent-ish starter fleet. Pirates eventually sends their raids, but the station + legion + random craps gets the job done.

Tri tech eventually gets involved, as my colony grows and its production with it. I guess on a better planet it would have started sooner, but mine being average+ at best means I stayed under the treshold for a while. They could have been an issue has that happened, but as is, I'm at a point where I can take a solo merc fleet, or one of their trade fleets. Trade fleets which also happen to be escorted by high tech ships, so, anyway, I end up with a high tech fleet, and the tri tech crisis is resolved. I saw a couple bounty hunters which cost me story points as I couldn't fight them, but never got to see a huge attack like all the others.

Next and last so far were the Persean. I had the "oh ***" moment seeing the 14 fleets, but at that point I could field my own capitals and had a solid line up of cruisers and destroyers with them. I'm one of those players that doesn't read everything, so I didn't know about supply fleets or grand armada. I read about the option to join them, but f that, I was confident I could take them. Head-on didn't work for CR reasons, but by picking a few stragglers where I could and facing the rest behind my orbital station, it was manageable. It was hard a took a few retries, but that's the good stuff :) And I'm not a great player by any mean.

Anyway, end of the little story there. Doesn't seem to be another crisis coming unless I start using AI cores, I'm now free to explore more and do quests.
TL;DR: had a very average playthrough focused on getting a colony going asap, the crisis system dictated the pace of the game for most of it, and... I liked it a lot!
I suspect it would feel overtuned if one was to play in a more "optimized" way, like one could read from a guide, or have learned from previous version. I went for what feels like a fair first playthrough, but if you rush trade fleets killing for some early millions and go plop down 3 colonies that you upgrade to the fullest asap with only your SO startership, you might have a bad time.
Still though, it felt like a fair challenge in my playthrough, so I hope you haven't overcorrected with the rc8 nerfs.

So yeah, great job Alex and the team! Very good update, imo, and I haven't seen all of it yet.

Following with more random thoughts:

- new missiles are fun. I don't use them, but they create interesting variety in enemy layouts. There's now a case in fights where I often find myself, where I underestimate a small pack of frigates and end up burning to 20+ lasers.

- has the blue skill tree been revamped? I usually go for the other 3, but this time I refused to go for the easy yellow and faced the full cost of running ships. And uuuuh, SO aurora with an elite skills build (so 5 points in blue, most of the rest in red with story points) feels a bit overpowered.
Especially with the new added effects for s-mods. I'm getting -20% damage taken from elite skills only, not counting the effects of the skills themselves, and I can s-mod 5% less damage taken from front shield conversion and 10% hard flux to soft with stabilized shields, and... Well it's insane. I barely take damage when facing cruisers and less, my flux won't even go up against a destroyer and a few frigates. I can kill capital ships while facing their gun instead of having to rely of maneuverability, but I still have the latter if needed. It's super fun, don't get me wrong, and SO has always been tricky to balance, but yeah, I think survivability is overtuned this patch, with the right build.
Or maybe that's the right reward you have in mind for this commitment to the build. I don't have elite officers or third s-mods, I had to s-mod cheap mods leaving me with less OP for my flagship, so I guess it's a heavy cost, but damn, that reward :D You wouldn't think starsector is a shark simulator but here it is.

- those added effects for s-mods are a great addition, by the way, makes it all the more interesting instead of just s-modding the more expensive mods.

- I was worried the game was going to feel dry without all the mods I was using, but it really didn't. All of what's good about Starsector is in the base Starsector, and it's really good.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1353 on: March 04, 2024, 08:00:16 AM »

Hey all, hey Alex!

Hey - welcome to the forum :) Thank you for your feedback, and for the detailed write-up, I appreciate it! Happy to hear the crises worked out in a fun way for you, especially.

The Tech (blue) tree did get some changes, yeah - Neural Link is now a tier down, and Cybernetic Augmentation has that new damage +/- effect based on elite skills.

For the SO Aurora - I don't doubt that it's very strong, but a lot of that has to do with just SO being... shall we say, less than well balanced, in a lot of cases. So I wouldn't want to base balance changes on SO, if that makes sense - it's just its own thing, and changing *other* things wouldn't balance it.
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Gris

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1354 on: March 04, 2024, 09:21:29 AM »

Hey all, hey Alex!

Hey - welcome to the forum :) Thank you for your feedback, and for the detailed write-up, I appreciate it! Happy to hear the crises worked out in a fun way for you, especially.

The Tech (blue) tree did get some changes, yeah - Neural Link is now a tier down, and Cybernetic Augmentation has that new damage +/- effect based on elite skills.

For the SO Aurora - I don't doubt that it's very strong, but a lot of that has to do with just SO being... shall we say, less than well balanced, in a lot of cases. So I wouldn't want to base balance changes on SO, if that makes sense - it's just its own thing, and changing *other* things wouldn't balance it.

Good day Alex,David,StianStark and Co!   
Thank you very much for Version 0.97a RC11 !  :D
And The best Purchase I've Ever Made!

My Question is What Next And What Now?
Where's the Endgame?

The Game already feels slightly complete even though you don't continue the Galatia Main Storyline.
(It would be kinda cool if the Galatia Storyline got continued)

And you wonder Alex why I say slightly complete?

Because,

The Only thing it lacks is Super Late End Game Content (I am so sick of Fighting D*ritos give us something more challenging to fight its been years!).
Even you don't continue the storyline (Because that's the most stressful part I Hope David will take good breaks from it)

I hope the next update will give us some Lore and answers and mysteries and clues!
Thats the fatal flaw of most sandbox games (No endgame Da What Now?, Where to spend your hard earned credits for example colony wonders)

My wish for a Qol in next update is the ability to remove the decivilized and decivilized subpopulation in my colonies.
(Unga Bunga Natives with their stupid 25% upkeep dance and Technobarbarians with their -2 stability)
I would gladly appreciate it!

And The Ability to Have a Personal Companion Officer as my First Mate Right Hand Man Just like Mount and Blade Warband Companions.
Even though its a slim chance and its not gonna happen.

And The Opportunity to Hear the Pre-Collapse Theme Song of the Domain of Man.
Not The Post-Collapse Theme song on the Main Menu.

That is all Im very sorry Alex, David,StianStark and co. for being so salty about it.  :'(



« Last Edit: March 04, 2024, 10:17:05 PM by Gris »
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freakingcynik

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1355 on: March 04, 2024, 10:46:36 AM »

Hey all, hey Alex!

Hey - welcome to the forum :) Thank you for your feedback, and for the detailed write-up, I appreciate it! Happy to hear the crises worked out in a fun way for you, especially.

The Tech (blue) tree did get some changes, yeah - Neural Link is now a tier down, and Cybernetic Augmentation has that new damage +/- effect based on elite skills.

For the SO Aurora - I don't doubt that it's very strong, but a lot of that has to do with just SO being... shall we say, less than well balanced, in a lot of cases. So I wouldn't want to base balance changes on SO, if that makes sense - it's just its own thing, and changing *other* things wouldn't balance it.

Makes perfect sense, yes. But what about... a little change with SO itself? Say, if you couldn't add it to s-modded ships? In my current case, it would remove a layer of damage mitigation, thus reducing "the problem". Would force a choice between the damage, 360° shields and flux capacity, and make diving through enemy lines and bringing your target with you a bit harder to pull off.

It's a super fun playstyle, so no point in trying to kill it, but as is, I barely have to play. I feel if I was a bit less survivable I would still be able to do it, but would have to choose my engagement more carefully and it would keep fights more engaging.

I always play around mobility even when not using SO (the Odyssey was new to me by the way, must have come from last patch, great player ship!), so I'm used to picking escorts off big targets before going for the big kill, but being able to kill an escort AND the capital with it without having to retreat inbetween, all in a 30DP cruiser, feels like a bit much :D
Have you tried it or seen it in action? The gameplay itself isn't new, it's just SO things, but the level of survivability that can be reached with cyber augment and the new s-mods is new, I believe. I can send you a savefile or give you the build, if you want to test it.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1356 on: March 04, 2024, 06:15:16 PM »

I don't tend to use SO all that much, but I've seen it, yeah. I have some thoughts for tweaking it to make it more engaging, though - possibly something like making it an active ability that *does stuff*? No promises, though; I really want to just mess around with it at some point and see what feels right, but, we'll see!
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Mishrak

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1357 on: March 05, 2024, 08:37:11 AM »

I think what's special about SO is it's a true enabler of some powerful things.  Those things feel so much less useful without SO that it's hard to envision those things without having it.

Two ships in particular come to mind, namely the Fury and the Aurora.  This might be worthy of a separate thread as a topic, but those ships gain so much from SO.  There's some great synergy with the buffed Field Modulation and s-modded Stabilized Shields that lets the player effectively run a "Flux Shunt" setup.  The ship runs efficient weapons, produces a large surplus of flux dissipation by virtue of SO and it shrugs off huge chunks of damage without losing any firing time.  It's kinda a meme setup and not an original idea from me, but i've been able to put it good use.

The ships that can fully utilize SO really almost need it to function.
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Grievous69

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1358 on: March 05, 2024, 08:40:20 AM »

Aurora is good without SO tho. Fury is almost a decent ship without SO right now, purely because so many energy weapons got buffed. Only thing holding it back is Rambo AI.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1359 on: March 05, 2024, 08:42:32 AM »

I think what's special about SO is it's a true enabler of some powerful things.  Those things feel so much less useful without SO that it's hard to envision a build that makes sense without it.

Two ships in particular come to mind, namely the Fury and the Aurora.  This might be worthy of a separate thread as a topic, but those ships gain so much from SO.  There's some great synergy with the buffed Field Modulation and s-modded Stabilized Shields that lets the player effectively run a "Flux Shunt" setup.  The ship runs efficient weapons, produce a large surplus of flux dissipation by virtue of SO and it shrugs off huge chunks of damage without losing any firing time.  It's kinda a meme setup and not an original idea from me, but i've been able to put it good use.

The ships that can fully utilize SO really almost need it to function.
Aurora does not need SO to function.  It may be better with SO, but it can function without it.

Fury, when piloted by AI, on the other hand, absolutely needs SO.  Without it, it cannot escape from enemies fast enough the moment its flux gets high, and if the enemy has a mobility system (and Fury's does not go backwards), the Fury is locked into backpedaling until it dies because it cannot escape from the enemy sniping it to death.

Fury probably should get a built-in hullmod that always enables zero-flux speed just to patch AI flaws with the ship.  If not that, then either its mobility system needs to make it go backwards faster too, or make it cheap like it was and slap Rugged Construction on it because it is expected to die.

Shrike is similar, but it is cheap enough to be disposable.  Fury is not.
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dacian

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1360 on: March 05, 2024, 08:47:27 AM »

Fury is overshadowed by Eradicator (P) ...  BY FAR ...
Why would you deploy a Fury with 20 DP, when you can deploy an Eradicator (P) with 18 DP and do a better job at it ... just saying ...

IDK what the Fury needs, but it needs a consistent buff

EDIT: Eradicator (P)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2024, 08:49:16 AM by dacian »
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freakingcynik

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1361 on: March 05, 2024, 09:16:33 AM »

Found 4 usable Furys and 0 Eradicator, this run, so here you go, a good reason to use a Fury :D I didn't pilot one, but they roamed in a pack and found some kills while I was zooming around in the Aurora. It worked well enough.

@Mishrak, that's the build, yes. Maybe it's not new in the modding community, but a lot of its pieces are in vanilla. New cyber augment skill, new s-mod effects for cheap mods, elite skill reworks, energy weapons buff... I totally understand Alex not wanting to mess with balance around SO, but it is a fact, that in vanilla, an already OP build got a lot stronger through many little buffs :D
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1362 on: March 05, 2024, 10:12:38 AM »

Aurora is good without SO tho. Fury is almost a decent ship without SO right now, purely because so many energy weapons got buffed. Only thing holding it back is Rambo AI.
For me, it is the cowardly AI that thinks only of backpedaling endlessly.  Once it turns chicken, it refuses to do anything else until its flux bar is zero again, which is only possible if it has the speed to escape then dissipate flux safely.  Fury cannot shoot back when the enemy outranges it.  Since Fury has poor shot range without SO, might as well grab SO to mitigate the one big weakness it has, lack of backwards mobility.
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Mishrak

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1363 on: March 05, 2024, 12:01:46 PM »

Aurora is good without SO tho. Fury is almost a decent ship without SO right now, purely because so many energy weapons got buffed. Only thing holding it back is Rambo AI.
For me, it is the cowardly AI that thinks only of backpedaling endlessly.  Once it turns chicken, it refuses to do anything else until its flux bar is zero again, which is only possible if it has the speed to escape then dissipate flux safely.  Fury cannot shoot back when the enemy outranges it.  Since Fury has poor shot range without SO, might as well grab SO to mitigate the one big weakness it has, lack of backwards mobility.

Megas is spot on.

The Fury does not have the flux to trade damage while also returning fire with heavier flux weapons.  SO enables this behavior because it gives it enough speed to back off, let the flux dissipate and then go back in.  Fury has long been a favorite Ordo fighting ship, so I'm pretty well familiar with its shortcomings.

I'm less familiar with the Aurora as this is the first time I've used it at length, but I can't imagine running my current iteration of it without SO.  The flux shunt setup certainly won't work as well (probably not at all).
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.97a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1364 on: March 05, 2024, 12:16:15 PM »

I'm less familiar with the Aurora as this is the first time I've used it at length, but I can't imagine running my current iteration of it without SO.  The flux shunt setup certainly won't work as well (probably not at all).
Aurora has Plasma Jets.  It can backpedal and escape without the need of SO.
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