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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Anubis-class Cruiser (12/20/24)

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Author Topic: The Writing in this Game is Amazing  (Read 2951 times)

Wyvern

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2023, 11:33:18 PM »

As for the Ludds as they act in the game, they are yet another flavor of pirates or raiders that will not leave my faction alone after I turn on Free Port
Bolding added.

So, let me get this straight: You're calling the Luddic Church 'pirates' for... actually taking action against your colonies when you've ordered those colonies to operate as safe havens for pirates?

Just turn free port off. You don't need it anyway.
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Megas

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2023, 04:03:58 AM »

Ludds do not raid core worlds for their Free Ports.  They, and the Hegemony for that matter, need to mind their own business rather than act like pirates, especially after I save their sorry hides from pirates that would overrun their core worlds time after time.  If they were consistent, they would be sending expeditions to every last core world with Free Port, not just my colonies only.

Money gain from Free Port can be massive after it maxes out.  Also, the population growth is not insignificant if my colony is not yet at max size, and I want a bigger planet faster for bigger system defense fleet that can better defend my colonies, and the sooner my planet reaches max size, the sooner hazard pay gets turned off (permanently) for much more income.  (Hazard pay eats a lot of income.)  I am stupid not for using it, and the main penalty is -3 stability and somewhat more frequent expeditions.  I still get expeditions anyway if I do not use Free Port; does not really matter much if they come from five factions instead of three.  Actually, even better if they come from more possible factions to spread out the rep loss.  So yes, I am turning on Free Port when my colonies will be attacked by expeditions no matter what (by size 4 or 5).

Cores are different.  I cannot stand whack-a-mole Pathers, so I never use them on size 4+ worlds.  Size 3 worlds are fair game for alpha abuse after Hegemony is nuked off the map because cells do not spawn on size 3 worlds.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2023, 07:28:37 AM by Megas »
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Alex

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2023, 12:02:40 PM »

Please don't derail this thread with discussions of game mechanics.

As for Ludds, they are clearly wrapped in the clothes of Christianity, but behave more like anti-Christian terrorists (both factions; the Church is allied with Pathers and give them support, given bright green relations of 75, so they are part of the problem too) who follow corrupted dogma, which is why I call them a demon cult full of heretics and deviants who worship their false prophet Ludd (and want to nuke those demon worshippers off the map if they bother me, which they will if I use Free Port).

Calling a fictional religion "heretical" within the context of a real-life one is unnecessary and makes potentially inflammatory implications in an inappropriate context. Please don't do that.
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Siffrin

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2023, 05:49:38 PM »

Just turn free port off. You don't need it anyway.
You always need at least one freeport if you ever want to be self sufficient to supply your mining industry with drugs.
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Demetrious

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2023, 09:40:36 PM »

I'm at my heart a setting writer - a deeply unhinged setting writer, but I repeat myself - and Starsector's given me a lot of inspiration in how to do character and setting writing.

I am most decidedly not a setting writer - in my WIP (which I'm supposed to be working on right now, but here I am typing this,) I already know the deep emotional motivations of all my characters and all that but the setting boils down to "aliens bad, geek'em" and a firm knowledge of why the 1,000 ton supertanks are Totally Justifiable And Not Just Bolos With The Serial Numbers Filed Off. (They are.) But I'd like to mirror your observation(s) from another angle - character writing. Because we ultimately interact with this world through its characters. They're what bring it to life. And the characters are well-done. I could praise that a bit - and, in fact, I will, because I've been playing through the new version at last (got laid off recently) and I've screenshotted almost every single story (and side-story) textblock so far as a proper post talking about the writing in Starsector has been on my mind for years now. Alas, I have a story of my own to finish. So for now: yeah, the writing is good. Not news to anyone with eyes. But there's something more to it I want to point out - how it's integrated with the game.

Gargoyle and Zal are both too much of a quirky 2 kool 4 skool characters for my taste.

Sure. Gargoyle's an archetype; the Clever Rad Hacker Mans - the brilliant mind constantly in need of stimulation and challenge being part of it (and one true-to-life; I know the type to various degrees.) But archetypes exist for a reason; they exist in the real world. The only mistake is treating them like a straitjacket. Gargoyle is definitely terrified when you come back to pick him up after the relay hack, he knows he's put his ass in a sling. But then you take him to the Academy and his usual... personality just bounces off Biard like a stone off a glacier.

And that's where the game aspect comes in - first conversation with Biard after the hack, she cuts Gargoyle off on comms abruptly, and you can go to the comms menu, buzz him and continue that conversation. And he expresses delight that wow, you asked, you actually asked! You get to see a different side of him; one that's appreciative; you get a sense of how he's been chafing at Biard's... personality. You get to sense things that've been happening off-screen, the world moving without you, and it's something you can miss if you don't feel like calling him up. If you don't like Gargoyle and his 2kew4skewl BS, you can skip that conversation entirely. The fact you exercised agency as a player in contacting him is acknowledged, it's used in the story.

The big story update, of course, was a bombshell for the game. But I find this latest one has redoubled that. Sure, there's more side quests, and those are great, but what's better is how they tie into the rest of the game - the Luddic Pilgrimage one, for instance, has an impact later when you need to shoo a fleet of pilgrims away for a gate-scan. And of course, there's many more bar events now, anywhere you go, as well as the security fleet conversations. You are making a stir in this world; you're a player, shifting the very bedrock of the Sector with your actions, and people are taking notice. This world is alive, you can poke it and it pokes back. Prior to the big story update, many said that colony building didn't fit the theme; the core worlds've been struggling to survive for 200 cycles and then you pop up and found your own empire in a few years? Please. But after the story update it became explicit just how busy the outer worlds of the sector are; research outposts and Tri-Tach dark sites and scavengers who've run around often enough to sell you local hyperspace topography data. And when your impact on the sector is made known, it stands to reason that you'd be able to found new colonies - and keep them alive. You're not nobody - you certainly have to earn your victories, but you're an Adama, someone who can single-handedly reshape the sector through acumen, savvy and battlefield skills. The narrative-focused colony interaction things in the next update are perfect tie-ins to this.

Unlike most of my friends, I play with utility-only mods, and that's because I like the vanilla ships; especially how each one has a history and function that's more than just flavor text. They fit into this world; you can see whence they came from what they do now. The Eradicator stood out to me in the patch that added it - for securing the flanks of a battle-line, like swordsman covering the flanks of a pike formation, its innate speed is more than enough and ammo accelerator fits the "more firepower" battle-line doctrine. And the burn-drive variant's existence echoes a likely debate in the Domain admiralty over maintaining cohesion amongst the battle-line in advance, and perhaps the first mutterings of the "cruiser school" adherents as they watch the Admiralty seize upon the bright idea of a fast, maneuverable cruiser... and then ruin it with their obsession with ballistics instead of rapid striking power. The pirate variant doesn't exist because it's perfect for pirates, it's still around because of that; the origins aren't hard to discern. In other words, the ships are characters in this story too. The mechanics serve the story and the story serves the mechanics.

I spent years writing "CYOA" style stories (you may know them as "quests,") and aside from the oddity of second-person, present-tense (which I still slip into unconsciously whilst trying to write other things, egads,) player agency is what really makes that kind of writing stand apart from all others. Some people run them as interactive narrative experiences, and others incorporate more "game" elements; complete with players getting to roll digital dice and hosting sites with software to support such features. And Starsector really reminds me of a CYOA done well, where the player and writer are working in concert, with a shared vision, and breathing the world they imagine. That's had enough to pull off with actual ongoing dialogue between player and creator - much less in a single player game.

But it goes beyond mere verisimilitude via dint of excellent execution. It works because there is a narrative, a protagonist, agency, velocity. As OP says the game tackles difficult subject matter artfully and the character focus is key to that. But many poor writers can, and have taken that approach and still stood up cardboard cutouts to fill various roles. And one such cardboard cutout is "the downright evil villain who nonetheless has a point." Many poor writers will pen such a character and fill his mouth with pithy philosophy before the player fills it with the business end of a blaster because it's just so much airy BS that doesn't actually land, because nowhere in the story, the world, is there any evidence for it. But in Starsector, when Livewell Cotton, an actual factual terrorist from a faction that's killed millions and sundered entire worlds, sits down across a table from you with tea in his hand and tells you to beware... I was inclined to listen. Because the visit was occasioned by a vessel in my fleet that is tangible evidence of something inhuman, well beyond the ken of anyone in the Sector. Maybe a further evolution of rogue AIs left to their own devices in the outer systems... and then again, maybe not. Because something collapsed the extra-dimensional hyperspace matrices of the gates, and in the eerie unreality of that place you've seen ghosts dance and twirl and more than that... and as you stood by the silent adamantine rings, you heard a faint whisper of ethereal music. The kind nav officers insist they hear whilst the men at the weapons console roll their eyes and the shield officer's mouth twitches.

You listen, because the terrorist has a point. Everyone does. But they don't know the half of it; gripping to tails and legs. Through a quirk of fate, you're the only one who can begin to glimpse the whole elephant.

And it's terrifying.

... so the writing in this game? It's good.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 09:45:44 PM by Demetrious »
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Nettle

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2023, 11:02:26 PM »

But many poor writers can, and have taken that approach and still stood up cardboard cutouts to fill various roles. And one such cardboard cutout is "the downright evil villain who nonetheless has a point." Many poor writers will pen such a character and fill his mouth with pithy philosophy before the player fills it with the business end of a blaster because it's just so much airy BS that doesn't actually land, because nowhere in the story, the world, is there any evidence for it. But in Starsector, when Livewell Cotton, an actual factual terrorist from a faction that's killed millions and sundered entire worlds, sits down across a table from you with tea in his hand and tells you to beware... I was inclined to listen. Because the visit was occasioned by a vessel in my fleet that is tangible evidence of something inhuman, well beyond the ken of anyone in the Sector. Maybe a further evolution of rogue AIs left to their own devices in the outer systems... and then again, maybe not. Because something collapsed the extra-dimensional hyperspace matrices of the gates...

Extensive story spoilers and speculations ahead.
While main story isn't complete yet, I believe we already have bits and pieces necessary to assemble the puzzle:
  • inexplicable gates network collapse
  • seemingly supernatural, hostile entity controlling Ziggurat
  • a 'melody' you hear while interacting with gates and Ziggurat while it's still controlled by aforementioned entity
  • alpha AI trying to remotely detonate Ziggurat husk using your salvage shuttles if you have one on board during recovery operations
  • unique type of sensor ghost - motes in hyperspace, that appear only if you have Ziggurat in your fleet
  • Kanta outright refusing quite possibly the most advanced capital in Persean sector because "it invites disaster from this world and those unknown."
  • Cotton basically warning you about the same thing
  • Omega's Tesseract cruisers closely guarding hypershunts, megastructures supposedly required to power the gates network and re-activate it

I don't know if you are thinking what I'm thinking, but I find it highly plausible that gates network collapse is no accident. Something is out there, whatever dimension gates are using to jump from one point to another is home to these unknown entities(or otherwise 'in use' by them), something so hostile to all inhabitans of our dimension that even AI considers them more of a threat to its existence than humans. I think there is either no Human Domain back home anymore, or they are fighting for their life, and we, the protagonist, are about to mess around and find out, reactivate the gates and invite 'big bad evil' into Persean sector. At least that's my prediction for how the narrative will go down based on my interpretation of story pieces already in place, but it could be something much more crazier or with a different twist.
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« Last Edit: December 19, 2023, 06:45:41 AM by Nettle »
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Aratoop

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2023, 10:53:19 AM »

Also not a writer, and I've been playing since 2012 so I can't say it's the result of the writing that I picked this game up (plus I was too young to really appreciate it), but it's definitely one of the reasons I love this game to bits. I'm so happy the game has progressed to the point we have dialogue and character writing to talk about, because just the skill trait, ship and planet descriptions made me feel very immersed. So you can imagine how much I like the mission dialogue and descriptions!

By dialogue I don't just mean what characters say either, like I said I love the skill descriptions but additionally all the dialogue in interactions is written brilliantly too. A standout example to me is the "Exploration" side of one of the story quests, the writing really gives a sense of verisimilitude and made me feel like I was chasing after leads. Same goes for the scene-setting for fighting the super redacted - the lack of description when even the [REDACTED] have tri-tach information manuals on them was suitably ominous for a fight that completely blindsided me.

And if we're talking characters we like a lot, I like all of them but amusingly I think I'm torn between Brother Cotton and Daud. I enjoyed their scenes and dialogue thoroughly.
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SCC

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2023, 11:17:06 AM »

I don't like Sebastyen. Not in the sense he's written badly, I just don't like the personality. He doesn't seem merely polite, but like a pushover. I do enjoy Kanta, even if I don't like her. To be precise, she's annoying enough that I enjoy raiding her hideout. Show her what a real pirate warlord looks like.

Alex

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2023, 03:32:28 PM »

(Cleaned up some posts that were against the forum rules; carry on.)
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robepriority

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2023, 08:42:31 PM »

Surprising that you guys are able to write so much prose accurately when dealing with rules.csv

Even the most wellwritten mods tend to drop a period or 2.

David

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Re: The Writing in this Game is Amazing
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2023, 04:43:59 AM »

Surprising that you guys are able to write so much prose accurately when dealing with rules.csv

Even the most wellwritten mods tend to drop a period or 2.

It's easy, we just have 1000 copy editors who are eager to let us know when they find a problem. ( -- Via The Typo Thread!)
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