Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 17

Author Topic: Skill Tweaks  (Read 49956 times)

PiIIow

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2023, 02:09:35 AM »

Ordnance Expertise for free on every ship??? Damn, what Alex is smoking? It sounds so broken. LP Brawler swarms will reign supreme (with amazing ECM rating too)!

Hull Restoration buff seems really good, still losing to junker fleets, but with added convinience of no negative mods while having some combat buffs.
What i don't like tho is that after last major update power is skewed to junker fleets cause of super secret Hegemony ships u get in late-game, and hull restoration rework does nothing to adress it :(

Still won't be using flagship skills cause i don't understand them xD
Power of economy beats everything!
Logged

vladokapuh

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Cabbage
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2023, 02:21:26 AM »

So we continue increase power difference between player, faction fleets, and remnants
remnants get *even more buffs*
player gets *even more buffs*

so we go further into: faction fleets stop being any engaging at all since theyre just pathetic levels of weak compared to player fleet, but remnants get even stronger, and remain the only thing available to challenge any somewhat well built fleet
Logged
Cabbage

Comrade_Bobinski

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 52
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2023, 02:22:54 AM »

I like all of this changes appart from - as other have said - the random damage bonus on defensive combat elite skill.

The one that feels the more out of place is the damage control elite damage bonus... It is too far-fetched. It got me thinking: what about moving the hull restoration elite effect to damage control, and change hull restoration's elite effect for something that "regrow" damaged armor (up to a point) ?

Also, I think the combat skill should be completly untiered. System expertise is confusing because it is trying to be a top tier skill and compete with missile specialisation. If missile spec is nerfed then it does not need to be considered top tier.

I would just focus system expertise on its core and arguably very usefull but ship-dependant bonus - enhancing the use of a ship special system - and be done with it, with elite just adding another charge or faster cooldown.
Logged

Bummelei

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Sabot is Love. Sabot is Life.
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2023, 02:23:45 AM »

The only issue with "Neural Link" and "Neural Integrator" was that you locked it behind too many skill points, the main issue is still here. You didn't fix anything, players still need two top skills just to operate Radiance. Is he really THAT gamebreaking so you keep overbalancing stuff? More broken than Ziggurat, or Doom? I don't get it. No one picked this skill before, and no one ever will with current implementation. It's completely unnecessary to go that far, just let people have "Neural Integrator" without taking extra steps.

Decision to buff "Support Doctrine" with "Ordnance Expertise" is warmly welcomed, now it feels more complete.

"Hull Restoration" addition is nice, i really like it. But what about "Derelict Operations"? Skill was already on the weak side, and "HR" buff will hammer the last nail into "DO" coffin. I wonder if it can have some help as well.
Logged

Rishel

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2023, 02:24:17 AM »

I like helmanship, impact mitigation, target analysis, combat endurance buff. Because it looks fair and it fits to a role, a ship so a playstyle.

However I am not a fan of damage modifier from field modulation, ballistic mastery and system expertise because it looks like a random choice.
True the system expertise elite skills are not attractive for a T2. Why not buff the 30s peak over time to 60s? or add a combo with SO or Ill-Advised Modifications ships? I mean there is something to dig in.

Also, it is really necessary to have system expertise and missile specialisation as T2 skills? Because each time I want to pilot a missile ship, i need to spend 5 points to the combat tree. Same in piloting a doom or a ship with a cool system like plasma jets.
I agree missile spec will be too strong as a T1 skill so maybe toning down?

For field modulation, we have lot of shiels hullmods so instead of 5% extra damage to shield; can we have a bonus to accelerated, extended, stabilized...shields hullmods?
Like -X% shield dissipation by shields hullmod installed? This seems OK and fits with the purpose of shield modulation skill.
I am sure there are cool ideas other than damage modifiers.

Some mentioned the power creep of ennemy officers by giving +dmg to combat skills, I think it is not a good idea to buff ordos because a meta will born from it.
IMO, it is not the purpose of a fun single player game.

Hull mod restoration is the best QOL skill so it is rare to not be tempted to pick it. It saves millions of credits and allow us to lose ships w/o bothering about restore cost.
Can we have a reliable function to remove d-mod overtime instead of buying a pristine ship? Drydock/Salvage industry like in the industrial evolution mod?

Otherwise, I like the changes. And thank you for the blog post.
 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2023, 02:36:08 AM by Rishel »
Logged

Kelenius

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2023, 02:30:37 AM »

So, ECM rating cuts enemy range by half of the rating, and if you have EW skill, then ECM rating over the cap reduces enemy ECM cap, also by half of the rating over the cap. It seems that you could just halve everything that gives ECM bonuses and drop "by half" part of the skill description? So rather than having 16% ECM that gives you 8% enemy range reduction you'd just have 8% ECM.
Logged

PiIIow

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2023, 02:34:47 AM »

So, ECM rating cuts enemy range by half of the rating, and if you have EW skill, then ECM rating over the cap reduces enemy ECM cap, also by half of the rating over the cap. It seems that you could just halve everything that gives ECM bonuses and drop "by half" part of the skill description? So rather than having 16% ECM that gives you 8% enemy range reduction you'd just have 8% ECM.

Having 0.5% ECM raiting in skills descriptions would've being even more awkward
Logged

Kelenius

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2023, 02:52:46 AM »

So, ECM rating cuts enemy range by half of the rating, and if you have EW skill, then ECM rating over the cap reduces enemy ECM cap, also by half of the rating over the cap. It seems that you could just halve everything that gives ECM bonuses and drop "by half" part of the skill description? So rather than having 16% ECM that gives you 8% enemy range reduction you'd just have 8% ECM.

Having 0.5% ECM raiting in skills descriptions would've being even more awkward

It seems better than seeing 1% but having to keep in mind that it's really 0.5%.
Logged

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3126
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2023, 02:59:19 AM »

Can't remember the exact words from a blog post that was talking about the skill system rework (and there were multiple), but I recall one of the reasons being to streamline the whole points thing and make each point meaningful, instead of a ton of small little buffs. Now we're once again going to that bunch of small stat buffs that don't change your playstyle in any way, just spread across less skills than before.

And good points brought up by other commenters here, faction fleets becoming even more of a joke. Who cares about a XIV Onslaught with a level 6-7 officer when there'll be Remnants full of stat buffs. I hope this isn't the idea of the true endgame.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

DJBscout

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2023, 03:19:13 AM »

Ngl, I'm underwhelmed if not disappointed by some of the changes. Just to be clear, I've been thrilled with most of the recent blog posts, and love seeing active development. But this one to me just misses the mark, to the point where I actually figured out my darn password and logged in, something I haven't done pretty much since I made my account.

The defensive skills all just getting damage buffs feels wrong to me. I liked some of the flavor and complexity, and it's worth noting that those skills disproportionately benefitted low-tech ships by virtue of their reliance on armor and/or hull tanking.
The DC elite was *huge* if you had to take a reaper on the chin, which, let's face it, is sometimes going to happen, especially as a new player and/or on something like an onslaught wading into a pool of enemy destroyers/frigates. (And if you're supposed to tank it on shield and potentially overload, then the removal of system expertise's reduced overload time is also an indirect nerf). And since it's a skill about reducing the consequences of taking hits, it requires a so-called "loss state" to use any of its benefits. But that's okay, because if I've picked that skill it's because I anticipate taking so much damage that I am eating into hull and getting things disabled, and will still want to stay in the fight when that happens (whether that be because of a build I've made or because I'm new and bad at piloting isn't really relevant). Y'know, damage control, the name of the thing.

With limited points, you have to pick what you're going to specialize in. So, if I want more damage, I can spec into the myriad of skills for that. If I want to be tougher, the skills to be tougher should do almost exclusively that.  I saw someone saying the DR elite skills should instead have thematic DR buffs, and I agree. The example they used was elite IM reduces HE damage, DC reduces frag/energy damage, and field modulation reduces kinetic damage. Those make thematic sense more to me than the damage buffs, and they make the choices remain consistent for your limited options.

The proposed version is probably a buff when all the math shakes out, but to me it's less interesting and makes the skill tree less coherent. Plus, it'll just makes high-level officers generically nastier to fight, instead of having thematically noticeable effects. This set of changes makes a lot of skills more generic, and I don't see the good in that.

I'm also going to second the slight disappointment at the ordnance expertise nerf. It opened up builds that didn't work otherwise, and it adds on to my feeling that this set of changes will eat into the ability of the player to focus on a niche and really make it work by building for it. I could keep going, but I've rambled enough and made my point.

I'll close on a happy note and say I REALLY like the improvement to combat endurance. It's an excellent change.
Logged

Hadza

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2023, 03:25:17 AM »

(I forget if hullmod unlocks from skills are unlearned when respeccing out of the skill; if not, everyone will just cheese that should it happen)

They are, you get to choose which hullmod you ditch if you do that. Levels and elite skills for your officers though? Haven't tried that.
Logged

PiIIow

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2023, 03:30:06 AM »

(I forget if hullmod unlocks from skills are unlearned when respeccing out of the skill; if not, everyone will just cheese that should it happen)

They are, you get to choose which hullmod you ditch if you do that. Levels and elite skills for your officers though? Haven't tried that.

Officers and skills too. Either they get downgraded or become merceneries (with sp upkeep and all)
Logged

Ripmorld

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • chronically online animal
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2023, 03:37:12 AM »

I'm pretty sure Alex just wanted to get rid of situations where ships have more than 100% CR which does nothing mechanically, and also isn't even shown in the UI I think.
Yeah but issue is that it kinda kills one of the few remaining options to buff a ships CR , and I don't quite understand what were yu refering to not showing up in the UI ?
Logged
yip yap !

Grievous69

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3126
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2023, 03:38:37 AM »

Because it's obviously not intended, it does nothing if you have 115% CR.
Logged
Please don't take me too seriously.

Oshi

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Skill Tweaks
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2023, 03:45:16 AM »

I noticed that the Neural Link tooltip doesn't mention any exclusions any more - Does this mean that Missile Specialisation applies to both ships now?
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 17