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[ShadowRhino]

One thing i've noticed, on a station defence mission, the allied ships outnumbered the enemy hostiles. One onslaught was left and started to retreat from the station out of the area (understandable) however the allied fleet which outnumbered it 30 ships to one choose to pull back around the station and other locations instead of finishing it off which was a bit weird as i've seen them go all out to eliminate enemies that attack their stations?

That's not something I modified. Allies and most of the enemies are controlled by vanilla AI, with only slight changes, like weapon usage and aiming.

Ok so any random behaviour with enemy or allied AI is down to Vanilla AI or maybe another mod? wouldn't weapon usage change AI behaviour with how it uses and engages with it? Sorry just trying to figure out what caused that behaviour.

[Genir]

Ok so any random behaviour with enemy or allied AI is down to Vanilla AI or maybe another mod? wouldn't weapon usage change AI behaviour with how it uses and engages with it? Sorry just trying to figure out what caused that behaviour.

No problem, feel free to ask!

AI Tweaks overhauls AI for ally/enemy Invictus and Guardian only. And most enemy ships in simulator. Other than that, the AI is vanilla (or changed by other mods, as you say). Wepon usage may indeed change vanilla behavior to a degree, because the ships get overfluxed quicker. But they don't get timid because of that, just retreat and vent faster.

So yes, any randomness should be vanilla/other mods. Unless there's some AI Twekas bug I'm not aware of.

[Genir]

v1.12.2 is out. Download

Changes:

• Custom AI: If the enemy is in full retreat, ships will attempt to intercept and block its escape route. This is the initial implementation of the feature, improvements are on the todo list. Suggested by Reshy.
• Custom AI: Several improvements and regression fixes in ship movement coordination.
• All ammo-based kinetic weapons attack enemy ships only when their shields are raised. Previously the behavior applied only to vanilla Needlers. This feature can be disabled in LunaLib settings. Suggested by vinh.
• Aim Assist can be configured not to target hulks and asteroids. Suggested by Roxorium.
• Potentially fixed an incompatibility with Luddic Enhancement: IED Edition, where "the funny Luddic explosive Tankers loses its suicidal behavior". Reported by TheShear.

[Reshy]

A request if possible, but if the current target is heavily fluxed out and can't really raise their shield then wouldn't it make sense to have the AI no longer fire kinetic weapons as to not over flux yourself dealing the kinetic chip damage on armor?  There'd need to be caveats but I feel like that'd make low tech ships marginally better since their big problem is lack of flux dissipation so firing all their weapons all the time isn't feasible.

Indeed, the feature is definitely in the backlog!

I think it's really complicated to do well - as you said, there are caveats. The basic idea is not just sort weapons into kinetic/HE, but calculate the actual hit strength taking into account target armor. That way you can still effectively use weapons like the High Velocity Driver to destory unarmored hull. But I don't have any code for calulating armor effects yet. There's will be many special cases to take into account.

To sum it up: yes, but not soon.

Maybe make a AI budget for different stages, that the ship won't spend more than it's flux dissipation on weapons when using ineffective weapons (If shield's up, don't use explosives if it puts your flux over budget, if shields are down don't use kinetics if it puts your flux over budget).  That's probably how I'd do it, with a special case for when a ship's already taken substantial damage to their hull (like 33% to 50%) which at that point there's little to no armor remaining for using kinetic damage against hull/armor.

[Genir]

Maybe make a AI budget for different stages, that the ship won't spend more than it's flux dissipation on weapons when using ineffective weapons (If shield's up, don't use explosives if it puts your flux over budget, if shields are down don't use kinetics if it puts your flux over budget).  That's probably how I'd do it, with a special case for when a ship's already taken substantial damage to their hull (like 33% to 50%) which at that point there's little to no armor remaining for using kinetic damage against hull/armor.

Yes, something along those lines, with a budget. So a different bahavior when engaging a fresh enemy vs engaging a damaged enemy.

I wonder how vanilla does it?

[Genir]

v1.12.3 is out. Download

Changes:

• Shield Assist now works with front shields.
• Aim Assist now has a Perfect Targeting mode, where it disregards the mouse input and aims precisely at the target center. Perfect Targeting can be enabled in LunaLib settings.
• Fixed a special case in ship facing calculation when using unusual weapon groups, such as both back-facing weapon slots on a Harbinger
• Pressing right ALT + K speeds up the combat by a factor of 5.

[Genir]

v1.12.4 is out. Download

Changes:

• Fixed null pointer exception in ship maneuver logic. Reported by TimeDiver0.

[ShadowRhino]

Noticed now (i'll confirm if it's from just from one mod) but when the fleet is attacking, if there one ship going one to one with another ship and there's another ship behind it, the other ship will try to "shoot through" the other ship to get to the enemy which when it's a typhon missile boat isn't generally good. It's only with my fleet it's happening with not enemy fleet as am guessing their fleet makeup isn't random ships from other factions/mods.

Edit: the ships are from indies expansion pack, also watched one of my ships mercy kill another ship that was in front of it and was retreating.

[Ioulaum]

Seems like Cryoflammer target leading are bit off.

[Reshy]

Seems like Cryoflammer target leading are bit off.

Same thing happens with the Symbiotic Void Creature's acid flame thrower.

[Genir]

Noticed now (i'll confirm if it's from just from one mod) but when the fleet is attacking, if there one ship going one to one with another ship and there's another ship behind it, the other ship will try to "shoot through" the other ship to get to the enemy which when it's a typhon missile boat isn't generally good. It's only with my fleet it's happening with not enemy fleet as am guessing their fleet makeup isn't random ships from other factions/mods.

Edit: the ships are from indies expansion pack, also watched one of my ships mercy kill another ship that was in front of it and was retreating.

Does this happen only with missiles, or with projectile and beam weapons? I'm asking, because I didn't modify missile behavior at all, just proj and beams. Do you have AGC installed?

[Genir]

Seems like Cryoflammer target leading are bit off.

Same thing happens with the Symbiotic Void Creature's acid flame thrower.

Cryoflamer "projectiles" are scripted to use rope machanics. When the ship rotates, the flame turns with the ship. I'm not sure if it's even possible to predict their path when the ship doesn't rotate, much less when it does. The weapon design is inherently non-aimable. I added it to a blacklist, so that AI tweaks doesn't even attempt to aim the weapon. What you're seeing is vanilla aiming algorithm.

As for the acid flamer, I didn't know it does the same. Though I heard Jannes was implementing rope mechanics, so that's probably it.

So, unfortunately, I won't be able to fix this issue.

[ShadowRhino]

Noticed now (i'll confirm if it's from just from one mod) but when the fleet is attacking, if there one ship going one to one with another ship and there's another ship behind it, the other ship will try to "shoot through" the other ship to get to the enemy which when it's a typhon missile boat isn't generally good. It's only with my fleet it's happening with not enemy fleet as am guessing their fleet makeup isn't random ships from other factions/mods.

Edit: the ships are from indies expansion pack, also watched one of my ships mercy kill another ship that was in front of it and was retreating.

Does this happen only with missiles, or with projectile and beam weapons? I'm asking, because I didn't modify missile behavior at all, just proj and beams. Do you have AGC installed?

Mostly missiles, but i've seen the pirate onslaught will fire at friendly ships like they're enemies sometimes, so that's a projectile. Yes AGC is installed and i suspected that it could be screwing with it some how so some ships have it completely removed. I've finished for the day but i'll check later to see if the ships causing problems are A. using AGC and B. have custom ai enabled.

Quick question with the AI when giving orders does the type of AI decide how quickly it will carry it out? As i've seen some ships that are 25% life left, given the retreat order and have a way clear so don't need to move around any other ships, but will instead go all ramming speed on the enemy?

EDIT: checked today and no AGC not enabled but AI pilot is aggressive if that means anything but they still try to fire through friendly ships like it's not there.

[Genir]

Mostly missiles, but i've seen the pirate onslaught will fire at friendly ships like they're enemies sometimes, so that's a projectile. Yes AGC is installed and i suspected that it could be screwing with it some how so some ships have it completely removed. I've finished for the day but i'll check later to see if the ships causing problems are A. using AGC and B. have custom ai enabled.

EDIT: checked today and no AGC not enabled but AI pilot is aggressive if that means anything but they still try to fire through friendly ships like it's not there.

This looks like it may be difficult to solve.

Thus far we know the issuse:

• Causes ships to try to shoot through allies, as if the allies weren't in the line of fire.
• Happens only for player ships, not for the enemy.
• Affects both missile and non-missile projectile weapons.
• AGC is not the cause.

Can you tell me if the issue happens only for ships with Custom AI hullmod, or for all ships? And does it happen when you remove AI Tweaks?

Can you post your mod list?

Quick question with the AI when giving orders does the type of AI decide how quickly it will carry it out? As i've seen some ships that are 25% life left, given the retreat order and have a way clear so don't need to move around any other ships, but will instead go all ramming speed on the enemy?

Retreat maneuver is handled by vanilla AI in all cases, even for ships with Custom AI hullmod. I'm not sure what governs how quickly vanilla AI carries out orders, but my experiance is that it considers them just a low priority suggestions.

[Ioulaum]

Seems like Cryoflammer target leading are bit off.

Same thing happens with the Symbiotic Void Creature's acid flame thrower.

Cryoflamer "projectiles" are scripted to use rope machanics. When the ship rotates, the flame turns with the ship. I'm not sure if it's even possible to predict their path when the ship doesn't rotate, much less when it does. The weapon design is inherently non-aimable. I added it to a blacklist, so that AI tweaks doesn't even attempt to aim the weapon. What you're seeing is vanilla aiming algorithm.

As for the acid flamer, I didn't know it does the same. Though I heard Jannes was implementing rope mechanics, so that's probably it.

So, unfortunately, I won't be able to fix this issue.

Got it thanks,

Just come up with a suggestion, could staggered firing have additional options?
Say, toggle on and off for needlers.