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Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

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Author Topic: Colony Crises  (Read 48161 times)

Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2023, 01:38:26 AM »

Quote
and fighting off a Luddic Path attack will disrupt Pather cells across the entire Sector, for a long time.

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awpmax

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2023, 02:02:35 AM »

A little question. With all this endgame content, a.k.a "Galactic SuperEmpire Tamagochi", have You considered adding some mechanic to alter the overall balance for raids and events but from ingame perspective? Less raids that are weak whack-a-mole, bigger bunched fleets, lower incentive to raid overall.
Not like "Bribed Hegemony AI inspection, waiting for another" but more like "Bribed Hegemony with loads of cash to remove my system from inspection list"?

Or player burned 50 pirate stations scaring pirates shitless, all while having 20+ Paragon fleet nuking Luddites' planets and enlaving their population for an involuntary organ-donation.
So those more "clever" factions might think "maybe it is not the best idea to mess with genocidal megalomaniac that has killcount written in scientific notation?", maybe they don't want same happen to them or are just generally considering potential gain vs potential losses. Like overall reputation to uphold, preventing those smart ones from suicidal ideas?

Most games don't bother with this, sending stoneaxe armed raiders onto the green 1-hour player or armed supersoldier player after 100 hours of gameplay.
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JJ842

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2023, 02:22:49 AM »

Looks great, can't wait to see how it all pans out in practice! One thing I was wondering though is whether the remoteness of the player's colonies has any effect on the speed the crises "tick up"? At least from a gameplay perspective it'd be nice if setting up shop in some remote corner of the sector had some benefits to offset the accessibility malus & hassle of travelling there (at least before gates etc.).
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Rap1d

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2023, 03:45:54 AM »

Looks absolutely great! Can't wait!
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2023, 05:19:18 AM »

Great, looks promising!

Will SP Improvements/Cryoarithmatic Engines/Alpha Cores finally contribute to threat reductions or is that considered unnecessary since the final showdowns are only things that matter and they already help when those happen?

Will we get special dialogue for quests like while talking to Yaribay/Macario/Daud for buddying up to or defeating factions?
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Nettle

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2023, 05:34:04 AM »

Ah - yes, once you've dealt with all the crises, there are... no more crises to deal with :)

Thanks for claryifying this one. I kinda liked the idea of having repeatable "major hostilities" once in a while, akin to what major factions are already experiencing between themselves, but I do undersntad that you had other vision of this system, more narrative focused one. Eiter way great job with this rework.
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AcaMetis

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2023, 05:50:29 AM »

Interesting new system for sure, curious to see how it plays out.

That said, RE: League,
Spoiler
there really should be a way to threaten(/bluff?) those "enforcer" fleets with you, as representative(/unquestioned dictator) of your faction, making deals with other factions if they don't leave you (and/or the rest of your faction?) alone - pointedly calling the Hegemony the actual authority of Domain space and saying you'll ask them to patrol your volume if there's a need, some kind of business agreement with Tri-Tach "safe travel and freedom of commerce is our raison detre" Corporation and how the League is disrupting their precious commerce, parlaying with Kanta to keep pirates out of the local volume in the first place (with an underlying threat that those pirates will be turning their attention elsewhere in such a case, which a less savvy player might not realize is the reason the enforcers really don't like that particular option ;)), maybe even the League itself depending on which League sub-faction those Enforcers belong to and who they really don't want to end up reporting to/being replaced by. And, of course, it could be especially interesting to threaten/bluff to make a deal with the Sindrian Diktat, since they're allies of the League. And, you know, the Sindrian Diktat. There's a line of thought that's just going to go every kind of nowhere possible if the PC tries it, I feel like.

And yes, threatening to make deals with factions the League doesn't like absolutely should escalate their crisis. Even more so if you end up threatening a deal with a faction that's particularly not liked, and especially if you end up making good on that threat ;D.
[close]
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JenkoRun

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2023, 06:44:58 AM »

Are there any plans to tie in the reactivation of the gates at the end of the Galatia quest line with the Crises system, or even just how the factions react to the player? For something as huge as that it feels kind of weird that none of the factions react to it, with the Crises system being a big step in the Sector reacting to the player this feels like something that would fit right in.
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Princess of Evil

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2023, 07:01:52 AM »

I do think the system should be reused for minor crises once you run out of major ones, maybe with a chance to get a minor one instead of a major one. Something like, X warlord wants to attack you and you can either wait for them, go for a peace deal or alternatively blow up their entire space station; or your colony is really short on food and if you deliver like a thousand pieces you get a population boost.
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Alexis Incarnadine

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2023, 07:52:38 AM »

I'm definitely looking forward to this! Currently I find that I feel basically helpless to stop the colony threat level from creeping ever upwards. There aren't enough pirates/Pathers to fight in order to reduce the meter. It definitely feels punitive to have a colony at the moment - either you establish one and let it breathe through a straw taking a decade or more to grow to a point where it's decent, or you load up everything with alpha cores and just submit to the fact that your colonies are going to have -2/-3 stability permanently in the long run no matter what you do.
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FooF

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2023, 08:05:54 AM »

Regarding the Lobster Crisis: how does the player character aid in their emancipation? Will the progress bar fill as we buy up all the diaspora lobsters on foreign worlds or is it more of a picket defense of Volturn against the Anti-Nephropidae Coalition when they assault the free sea people of the claw?

Oh, that's right, you can't reveal the true endgame yet. ;)
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Alex

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2023, 08:30:34 AM »

1. Can modders add their own factions to the system, with their own incentives and triggers?

Yes, definitely.

2. Are there some safety-catches, that in case, like 30 of a players mods add a faction to the system, the player never has to consider handling more than like 3 of those at a time?

... not really, no. The general idea is it's up to the player to navigate how many factions they want to make angry all at once, and that the more are angry at the same time, the faster the crises come.

Hmm. This would be a problem if it took like two months to go through the full event bar, wouldn't it. Maybe there should be a hard maximum or something.

Quick question on this quote:
"Kanta’s Protection increases the permanent accessibility bonus your colonies get"

Does this mean that if I were to say have a colony that has a low accessability due to being far away or being at war with multiple factions kanta's bonus still apply?

It's just a market condition, called "Piracy Respite". +10% if defeated raid, +10% extra if Kanta's Protection.


How about after a "defeat" resolution of a crisis, you get a "crisis" with a very long meter that would normally take many in-game years to fill up, representing a faction licking their wounds, with thresholds points decreasing the bonuses you got from defeating them, and once it fills up it will get replaced with the normal crisis, slightly or majorly altered or even a new one to account for revanchism?

One of the explicit goals of this new implementation is to step away from the idea of it being a "forever mechanic". This lets you - the player - feel like you've achieved something permanent, a sense of relief and accomplishment after defeating an expedition and gaining a bonus. Having it deteriorate and eventually expire, even if it takes years, would I think severely undermine that feeling. It's not necessarily a bad idea - I think it might work in different circumstances - but I don't think it really fits here.


Do the several faction crisis eventually get affected by distance from the core worlds?

It would be a unique perspective that if the different crisis events have to spend extra resources to undermine your colonies sounds like a good idea. Able to have us experienced players balance the accessibility with the hostile activity to get a form of "Safe space" until further updates come

They don't. Interesting idea, though!

Quote
and fighting off a Luddic Path attack will disrupt Pather cells across the entire Sector, for a long time.



Haha! Replace "Persean Sector" with "Tri-Tachyon, who I am currently at war with" :)

Less raids that are weak whack-a-mole, bigger bunched fleets, lower incentive to raid overall.
Not like "Bribed Hegemony AI inspection, waiting for another" but more like "Bribed Hegemony with loads of cash to remove my system from inspection list"?

Hmm, I feel like that's - more or less - literally the new mechanics?

Like overall reputation to uphold, preventing those smart ones from suicidal ideas?

Since these are also reward-opportunities, this would end up punishing the player for being too successful and encourage them to game the system by being just-unsuccessful-enough (in whatever artificial way this is measured) to still get these; I don't think that'd work out too well. I get what you're saying, though.


Looks great, can't wait to see how it all pans out in practice! One thing I was wondering though is whether the remoteness of the player's colonies has any effect on the speed the crises "tick up"? At least from a gameplay perspective it'd be nice if setting up shop in some remote corner of the sector had some benefits to offset the accessibility malus & hassle of travelling there (at least before gates etc.).

It doesn't, but yeah, that's an interesting idea. I'll think about that!


Will SP Improvements/Cryoarithmatic Engines/Alpha Cores finally contribute to threat reductions or is that considered unnecessary since the final showdowns are only things that matter and they already help when those happen?

It won't contribute to event progress reduction, no.

Will we get special dialogue for quests like while talking to Yaribay/Macario/Daud for buddying up to or defeating factions?

There's a lot of new dialog, is all I'll say :)

Are there any plans to tie in the reactivation of the gates at the end of the Galatia quest line with the Crises system, or even just how the factions react to the player? For something as huge as that it feels kind of weird that none of the factions react to it, with the Crises system being a big step in the Sector reacting to the player this feels like something that would fit right in.

Those are separate things, to me; the gate stuff is too large to be just a part of the Crisis system, if that makes sense. Although it might be interesting to have a special crisis for that in addition to whatever else, hmm. Will mull that over! (For the future.)

I do think the system should be reused for minor crises once you run out of major ones, maybe with a chance to get a minor one instead of a major one. Something like, X warlord wants to attack you and you can either wait for them, go for a peace deal or alternatively blow up their entire space station; or your colony is really short on food and if you deliver like a thousand pieces you get a population boost.

I get what you're saying and I think understand where that's coming from; see my earlier response about it not being a "forever mechanic" anymore. Those *can* feel cozy in some ways - like the game world won't "run out" of things. But at the same time, that does undermine the sense of actually having *done* something in the world. And at this point I think there are enough crises to last through a playthrough - well, depending on how many you actually trigger. But given also that it's not the *only* thing to do in the game...


Regarding the Lobster Crisis: how does the player character aid in their emancipation? Will the progress bar fill as we buy up all the diaspora lobsters on foreign worlds or is it more of a picket defense of Volturn against the Anti-Nephropidae Coalition when they assault the free sea people of the claw?

:-X
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Dadada

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2023, 08:32:52 AM »

Nice. We will still get poked from time to time after finishing them all, right? I certainly hope so.

That said, RE: League,
Spoiler
there really should be a way to threaten(/bluff?) those "enforcer" fleets with you, as representative(/unquestioned dictator) of your faction, making deals with other factions if they don't leave you (and/or the rest of your faction?) alone - pointedly calling the Hegemony the actual authority of Domain space and saying you'll ask them to patrol your volume if there's a need, some kind of business agreement with Tri-Tach "safe travel and freedom of commerce is our raison detre" Corporation and how the League is disrupting their precious commerce, parlaying with Kanta to keep pirates out of the local volume in the first place (with an underlying threat that those pirates will be turning their attention elsewhere in such a case, which a less savvy player might not realize is the reason the enforcers really don't like that particular option ;)), maybe even the League itself depending on which League sub-faction those Enforcers belong to and who they really don't want to end up reporting to/being replaced by. And, of course, it could be especially interesting to threaten/bluff to make a deal with the Sindrian Diktat, since they're allies of the League. And, you know, the Sindrian Diktat. There's a line of thought that's just going to go every kind of nowhere possible if the PC tries it, I feel like.

And yes, threatening to make deals with factions the League doesn't like absolutely should escalate their crisis. Even more so if you end up threatening a deal with a faction that's particularly not liked, and especially if you end up making good on that threat ;D.
[close]
Nice, I like the ideas.
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Lukas04

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2023, 10:18:55 AM »


2. Are there some safety-catches, that in case, like 30 of a players mods add a faction to the system, the player never has to consider handling more than like 3 of those at a time?

... not really, no. The general idea is it's up to the player to navigate how many factions they want to make angry all at once, and that the more are angry at the same time, the faster the crises come.

Hmm. This would be a problem if it took like two months to go through the full event bar, wouldn't it. Maybe there should be a hard maximum or something.


While the player may have some choices to prevent angering to many factions, with enough mods its kinda impossible to not do anything that wouldnt. And thats fine aswell, makes it feel dynamic. The issue lies in the fact that multiple seperate mods may decide to make their faction dislike the same things. Maybe theres multiple hegemony inspired/sub mods, all of them are very harsh on AI, and suddenly because of your AI useage, 10 factions really want to make your life hell. Which may seem fitting to the theme, but doesnt sound like a fun experience.
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Twilight Sentinel

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Re: Colony Crises
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2023, 10:27:50 AM »

I like the direction that each of the different factions goes for their respective crises.  PL is trying to bully the new power on the block into joining them to help tip the balance of power in their favor.  TT and SD are most concerned about undermining their trade edge, though for different reasons and through different methods.  TT is engages in privateering to gain a business edge.  The SD is mainly concerned about their monopolies that give regime security, yet to see how they'll go about protecting that. 

LC is the odd one out, as I wasn't expecting one of the weakest factions in the sector to be the one playing the imperialist card.  Though I suppose that's because the Hegemony already has their core inspection theme and the LP is the anti-advanced tech one?  They sort of only had that direction left?  Hmm, what if they were the ones who cared the most about things like free ports and the production of 'sinful substances'?

Perhaps there's also crises for having very distant colonies or those with low accessibility representing things like bad supply lines and how hard it is for people to move between the core and your colonies?  The major factions won't pay as much attention to you the further out you are, but there's other downsides you get instead.

You could add some internal crises as well, such as striking workers from bad conditions or your residents asking for autonomy/representation/rights once you get big enough.  There's only so long you can run a large colony under martial law with no formal civilian government.  We don't get many opportunities to customize what kind of colonies/faction we're running in terms of non-military stuff.  A sequence where we get to design a constitution and government is both great RP and opens up some interesting mechanical choices.

Speaking of which, discussing this idea made me think of creating a positive version of the crisis meter as well, a colony opportunity meter.  Where running colonies well or having them take advantage of certain items you've found brings with it special narrative and mechanical bonuses, perhaps a questline.  Some positive items that could bring opportunities:
  • Being the top producer of a commodity.  Gain a reputation for your [faction name] [good name], like Damascus Steel, and a few choices on how to leverage that.
  • Having maxed out population in a colony that is safe and well cared for.  Get an opportunity to accept a large influx of people to that colony (refugee crises?), potentially increasing its population one time.
  • Having a heavy industry and owning certain rare blueprints, multiplied by the amount of ship hulls produced.  Carve out a niche and specialty product for your faction in the shipbuilding industry.
  • Having a commerce industry with good accessibility, maybe bonus points for also being a free port.  Create a major trade hub for the sector, especially for scavengers and explorers.  The lighthouse in the storm.
  • Being a self sustaining faction.  Secure your supply routes and well insulate your faction against trade disruptions.
  • A sufficiently large fully independent faction, free of outside influence and deals but who also has at least non-hostile relations with the major factions.  Become neutral ground that mediates things between the various factions, hosts their spy games, and their Swiss bank accounts.
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