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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24)

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Author Topic: N00b questions  (Read 4949 times)

eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2023, 04:29:15 PM »

My gameplay experience is that installing an alpha core in Tech-mining is a complete waste of resources; whether or not you also spend story points to improve the industry and regardless of what level of ruins you're working with, it does not appear to meaningfully improve the chances of getting things that you actually want or noticeably extend the useful life of the industry, and a 50% increase in the amount of garbage produced by Tech-mining is closer to what I'd call a penalty than a benefit.

Also, unless perhaps you're setting up way out in the boonies and refusing to use any items, a few well-developed colonies can easily cover your operating costs and then some - if I recall correctly, Dorus alone can net something like sixty to eighty thousand credits per month, depending on how much of its import demand can be met within faction, from Commerce, Light Industry, Fuel Production, and Refining even without anything boosting production, and Ogygia will do about as much with the same setup. Why bother keeping (former) Tech-mining colonies for income when you already have more money than you're ever really going to need?
Could be rare items are fixed and not effected by the bonus, it could be rare items are affected by the bonus. Who knows, I almost always get something useful from doing this however, typically one colony item, a few blueprints although that depends on how many I have, and some AI cores.
I always set up out in the boonies as that's really the only place you find perfect systems. Depending on the run, my main colonies all located in the same system use at max 1 colony item so as to not attract Pather attention. In such runs I also typically have multiple high commands within the same system to ensure I don't need to bother fighting expeditions. When all is said and done in such runs, I'm making typically 200,000 - 300,000 a month. Which when taking officers, crew, and ship resources into account, is just a little more than what I need per month. With a handful of size 3 worlds, I can push that up to 500,000 easily.

They're an awful stopgap money printer because if you leave them going too long you're not going to be able to recover the alpha core you installed as a governor, which makes abandoning them once you no longer want them problematic, and on top of that a size-3 mining colony with decent resources and accessibility can pull in fifteen or twenty thousand without any items invested or probably more than double that with an Autonomous Mantle Bore. Additionally, while it can vary quite a bit from game to game, alpha cores are quite often not something you have in the early part of the game when you might actually want something that could reasonably be described as a "stopgap" money printer, especially if you're setting up your 'stopgap money printer' before exploring a nontrivial fraction of the sector.
By the time I've decided to set up a colony, I've explored a good chunk of the sector, and typically have around 10 Alpha cores. If I'm going for a no babysitting run, as mentioned above, I'm not ever going to use the cores on my main colony, and it's unlikely my fleet will need them. So that leaves size three worlds as the one place they are useful. The stop gap is to help fund my main colony development. Of course, I could just resort to piracy to fund my colonies, but don't because well I don't feel like it.

A Patrol HQ likely isn't going to do anything meaningful to the sorts of fleets that pirates generally send out to raid colonies, especially if the hostile activity meter actually gets high; the point of putting one in the system is to do something about shipping raids, because shipping losses can cripple colonial income and it doesn't actually take that much to kill a lot of the smaller fry that might go after trade fleets. It'll also passively contest pirate control over any satellites in the system, which means less baby-sitting.
Shipping raids typically don't occur due to HA being low for small systems, especially when you have one massive system drawing all the attention. You don't have to babysit the coms as the colony will remain over 5 stability. If there's no coms in the system a colony gets -1 stability, if it's in the system but not under faction control +0, and if it's under faction control +1/+2 depending on com type. TLDR, there's no babysitting for size three AI worlds besides dealing with the Heg.


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Which means the only thing you have to manage is the Hegemonies AI inspections, which can be easily bought off every couple years.
Pathers can be bought off every couple years, too, or shut up permanently if you give them the bomb, and there's a significantly larger benefit to sticking a couple alpha cores on a major colony with a base income of over a hundred thousand than on several minor colonies with a base income of maybe a fifth that much.

Also, a major colonized system can stand a pretty good chance of fighting off an AI inspection fleet (or, really, any other expeditionary force) without player intervention, so if you really want to take a hands-off approach to colony management putting the cores on the big worlds is a much better way to go.
Yes, but in the scenario where you use AI cores, you always have to pay off the Heg, you don't always have to pay of the Pathers if you set things up right. Likewise for RP reasons, paying off the Heg is okay, but paying off Pathers is a bad idea, giving them a planet killer is a terrible idea.

Unless you steal the Heg's Pristine Nanoforge, or have multiple extreme heat worlds with a high command plus a Cryoarithmetic Engine, they will eventually reach a strength where your colonies can't handle them. I haven't seen it this version, because I always steal their nanoforge, but in past versions the most extreme fleet I've seen from them is 5 very strong fleets.

Also, so what if Kanta's mad? Blowing up an inconvenient pirate base or two every now and then is hardly a problem for the sort of fleet you ought to have by the end of the storyline or with well-developed colonies, and even at 5 stability base pirate interest plus Kanta's wrath is only just over the passive hostile activity reduction of a military base on a size-6 colony.
Time, effort, I'm lazy, I want to seal club larger and larger Ordos, and finally leaving pirate stations alive increases profits thanks to the core worlds getting hit with a -50% accessibility. Which typically only decreases their market share but lets them still buy everything the need.
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Worldtraveller

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2023, 07:32:53 AM »

Thanks for all the discussion. This experience just gets more and more in depth every time I dig into it....

So, on the topic of creating stable points: How does one 'interact' with the sun/system? I've tried right and left clicking in every screen I can think of and it doesn't seem to do anything? Fly my fleet towards it like it's a planet? That's the one thing I haven't tried because I hate seeing my supplies go up in smoke like that. ;)

Skills question: The carrier skills only operate on 8 fighter squadrons. Does that mean the first 8 squadrons in my fleet get the benefit (so I have to be thoughtful about how I arrange/deploy my fleet) or if I have more than 8 squadrons (I like to run with 3 Herons currently) they no longer get the benefit?

Also, my mining colony is just sucking up my income. :( I can't get the 500k to install refinery but there's tons of ore there that it seems should be making some good money from trading.
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Hatter

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2023, 07:44:10 AM »

Fly my fleet towards it like it's a planet?
yup
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Aeson

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2023, 12:55:01 PM »

Skills question: The carrier skills only operate on 8 fighter squadrons. Does that mean the first 8 squadrons in my fleet get the benefit (so I have to be thoughtful about how I arrange/deploy my fleet) or if I have more than 8 squadrons (I like to run with 3 Herons currently) they no longer get the benefit?
All of the fighters in the fleet benefit, but the overall effect is reduced; if I recall correctly, the actual bonus you get is [maximum bonus] * min( 1, [limit] / [how much you actually have]).

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So, on the topic of creating stable points: How does one 'interact' with the sun/system? I've tried right and left clicking in every screen I can think of and it doesn't seem to do anything? Fly my fleet towards it like it's a planet? That's the one thing I haven't tried because I hate seeing my supplies go up in smoke like that.
Solar Shielding can help with that, especially if you use some story points to build it into your most expensive ships. Granted, you might have other things you want to use the OP, the story points, or the built-in hullmod slots for.

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Also, my mining colony is just sucking up my income. :( I can't get the 500k to install refinery but there's tons of ore there that it seems should be making some good money from trading.
If you can't afford to fill the industry slots that the colony already has, you're not going to benefit enough from having a bigger colony to justify the cost of Hazard Pay, so turn that off for a while if you're using it.

Accessibility factors into market share, which determines how much income your industry gets from exports, and can also limit export volume if it's very low (if I recall correctly, you can export 1 unit of each resource the colony produces per 10 points of accessibility, rounding down, plus four or five if exporting within faction). Consider trying to improve relations with other factions if you have an accessibility penalty due to "hostilities with other factions" of more than a few percent (which is about where it 'should' be if you're only hostile to the pirates and Luddic Path), or perhaps consider building a Waystation, upgrading your Spaceport into a Megaport, spending story points on your Spaceport / Megaport or Waystation, or installing a Fullerene Spool in the Spaceport / Megaport to improve accessibility (be aware, however, that it's possible that building a Waystation or Megaport will cost more than you'll gain from the increased accessibility, and that the cost of 'improving' an industry or structure with story points climbs rapidly each time you do so on the same colony).

Another possible issue is if your colony's stability is below 5, as such colonies have income penalties. Ensure that there's a comm relay in-system if you haven't already, take it back from the pirates if they've seized control of it, and maybe consider building Ground Defenses (or perhaps a Patrol HQ or Orbital Station, though those are more expensive) for the stability bonus. If you've set the colony as a Free Port, consider turning that off as the -3 stability penalty can be difficult to overcome, and possibly assign an administrator to one or more of your colonies since there's a scaling 'mismanagement' penalty to colonies administered by the player character (technically, it's a bonus at 1 colony, no effect at 2 colonies, and a penalty at 3 or more colonies).

Also, with regards to administrators: Fire any that have the Industrial Planning skill (be aware that rescued administrators always, or at the very least very often, have the Industrial Planning skill), and only hire the unskilled ones, because +1 production is not worth the extra 17,500 credits/month until the colony is very well developed, and even then it's pretty marginal unless you have a specific need for the additional output or have something like a Commerce industry upgraded with story points and a Dealmaker Holosuite.
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BaBosa

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2023, 04:00:49 PM »

If you’re gonna creat a stable point, store every ship except one buffalo or whatever with smod solar shields.
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Worldtraveller

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2023, 06:45:30 AM »

Thanks, I'll give that a try. I've discovered that it's pretty much a necessity to have multiple fleets (in storage) that I can swap in and out for different missions. So far I have the following 1 - Stealth; 2- Long range exploration; 3 - Bounty hunting; 4 - Colonizing

It's a pain to always have to swap and then reassign officers, but it's worth it. It would be nice if we could save pre-set fleets though.  :)

Question related to AI ship behavior in combat: I got lucky and found a Legion Carrier very early on, although I prefer to use the Eagle as my flagship still. I assigned my cautious officer to the Legion thinking she should mostly keep out of range and launch fighters and Squall missiles, but she just charges right in to the mix (as fast as the ship will let her anyway). I know the tags on the various ships represent how they act in combat, so I guess my question is which has priority? The officer's attitude seems to be completely over-ridden by the ship, but it feels like it should be the other way around. I have my default setting set to the middle (steady?) in doctrines tab if that makes a difference.

Loving this game. Just trying to learn more about how to make my fleets perform better. :)
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #51 on: August 15, 2023, 07:42:39 AM »

The officer's personality affects the tag but there aren't any ship tags that really matter outside of "carrier" and "civilian" and Legion is neither(it's a battle carrier so it won't try to stay out of combat like a normal carrier would) If the AI feels confident enough it will go in even when Cautious. Doctrine aggressiveness setting has no effect on ship officers normally, but I think it may override them in the simulation.

Hard to say much else without seeing the fit, maybe it's all short ranged so the AI feels like it has no choice but to close in.
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Worldtraveller

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #52 on: August 15, 2023, 10:49:04 AM »

Right. Thanks for that. I knew (from reading these forums) that it was a battle carrier. Is there a way to tell in game? For instance, both my condors and herons seem to like to close in as well, even when I give them rally points (they go to the rally point, then charge on in to battle....). The heron is at least fast enough if I notice it in time, I can usually re-issue an order to get it out, but the condor is pretty dead if it does that (which makes me wonder why it keeps charging).
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IDA Frigate Captain

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2023, 05:22:52 AM »

Right. Thanks for that. I knew (from reading these forums) that it was a battle carrier. Is there a way to tell in game? For instance, both my condors and herons seem to like to close in as well, even when I give them rally points (they go to the rally point, then charge on in to battle....). The heron is at least fast enough if I notice it in time, I can usually re-issue an order to get it out, but the condor is pretty dead if it does that (which makes me wonder why it keeps charging).
Ive noticed this too (my pair of hard-won Gryphons keep turning team tank with their pew pew vulcans). The AI has a kind of invisible chain tethering them to a rally point. Depending on the officer, they will wander forward towards the enemy line: reckless officers go quite far, timid not so much. You just gotta keep an eye on them, issue a retreat order if they get too far forward and adjust their rally point. Sometimes I just rally my light carriers and missile support ships to escort one of my tanks (Onslaught, Legion) and then just send the big guy forward with other ships on its flanks. That an three SO monitors sent to harass the enemy's capitals and keep them busy (thanks for that strat, CapnHector!)
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My first thought in winning the flux war - which dumb ass engineer put shields and weapons inseparably linked to the same flux system?!

Daynen

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2023, 01:54:48 PM »

One good rule of thumb when supplying your fleet (for me, anyway) is to figure out how many supplies you need for roughly a hundred days.  Even when you count for the damage of hyperspace storms and possible encounters (which should provide SOME supplies in return, assuming you win) this should usually give you a few month's worth of endurance with room for error.  I usually try to make sure my fuel is about 90% full before I head out somewhere, so I'm good for a long trip yet have room for sudden fuel acquisition if/when it happens.  As for crew, I try to keep about 10-15% crew over my ships' needs to account for possible combat losses and unexpected ship recovery; bump that up another 15% or so if I'm using fighters that need pilots.

When fitting your logistics ships (fuel, cargo, transports) strip their weapons.  If your fuel and cargo ships end up in an actual engagement, you're probably already wiped anyway.  Just fit them with mods that make them cheaper to maintain and/or provide passive benefits to your fleet; then worry about making them faster and more durable.  S-mod in solar shielding to drastically reduce the supplies wasted by travel near stars and storms, especially if you're running Atlas or Prometheus for logistics.

Try to adjust your ships and skills to get up to an 18 sustained burn speed.  20 is cool if you really want it, but I find that 18 is sufficient to either match or outrun basically any fleet in the sector that you can't outfight.

When exploring, always look for planets with debris around them.  They have ruins...and ruins can mean major goodies.  If you see a mission to scan a research station, GRAB IT, faction rep be damned.  Research stations mean blueprints and mods.  ALSO note that, (unless I'm sorely mistaken) when a mission for some kind of derelict ship or station appears, even if the mission times out, the object in question remains; therefore if you make a note of where a target is located, you can still go salvage it if you fail the mission.

Speaking of missions, mission alerts travel to you in real time, NOT instantaneously, starting from their place of origin.  If you're constantly seeing missions get withdrawn just after you get them, it's because you're too far away from the source and getting the news too late.  Comm relays help; staying near a system with a relay can get you better picks of missions.
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Aeson

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2023, 02:41:37 PM »

ALSO note that, (unless I'm sorely mistaken) when a mission for some kind of derelict ship or station appears, even if the mission times out, the object in question remains; therefore if you make a note of where a target is located, you can still go salvage it if you fail the mission.
Missions to interact with an object (station, derelict ship, supply cache, et cetera) don't spawn a new object, they target something that already exists. If you don't explore and recover or salvage the stations, derelicts, and caches you find, you can be offered missions targeted at something you already discovered.

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Research stations mean blueprints and mods.
While I agree that research stations are interesting mission targets, it's not for that reason - hullmods are easily collected while trading on the open and black markets or by raiding places for ship parts, and blueprints are of marginal value since most of them are things you're probably never going to order, either because you don't actually want it or because you can quickly and easily obtain it some other way, and as for the rest, well, by the time you've found blueprints you actually want and have the production capacity to build whatever it is in a reasonable amount of time you're probably not suffering permanent losses often enough for a reliable source of replacement ships to be of any particularly great value.

The real value of a research station, at least to me, is the chance of finding a useful colony item.
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Wyvern

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2023, 02:53:37 PM »

Missions to interact with an object (station, derelict ship, supply cache, et cetera) don't spawn a new object, they target something that already exists. If you don't explore and recover or salvage the stations, derelicts, and caches you find, you can be offered missions targeted at something you already discovered.
I, personally, find it particularly useful to avoid salvaging ships in systems with gates (unless it's something I want to actually recover for use in my fleet). This doesn't really pay off until fairly late, but it's always nice to get a scanning mission where you can just hop over, scan a ship that's right there, and be done with it.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Megas

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2023, 03:22:17 PM »

Before looting an object, I save.  If the object has something great, I take it.  If not, I reload and move on.  I got to have some objects left for pirates, pathers, or other faction to send me to for rep building.  I do not know if historian will create an object if objects were scanned or looted.
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Worldtraveller

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2023, 07:36:50 AM »

Missions to interact with an object (station, derelict ship, supply cache, et cetera) don't spawn a new object, they target something that already exists. If you don't explore and recover or salvage the stations, derelicts, and caches you find, you can be offered missions targeted at something you already discovered.
I, personally, find it particularly useful to avoid salvaging ships in systems with gates (unless it's something I want to actually recover for use in my fleet). This doesn't really pay off until fairly late, but it's always nice to get a scanning mission where you can just hop over, scan a ship that's right there, and be done with it.
I've started doing this as well. Thanks for the tip. When I find a slew of derelict ships, I will salvage or recover a couple and leave the rest for a hopeful mission later. :)

Another question: I've seen the mention of mercenaries a few times, but I don't think I've encountered them in game (or more likely, didn't recognize the opportunity). How/where do I find them. Do they allow more than the 240 DP for battles?
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Worldtraveller

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Re: N00b questions
« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2023, 04:55:17 PM »

Dumb question only tangentially related to Starsector: How do I take screenshots in game (Or record?) Do I need special software or is that something windows (11) can do native?

Thanks
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