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Author Topic: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)  (Read 4257 times)

CapnHector

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Inspired by the Proxy thread, I decided to try whether 5 Legions might also beat the 5 ships vs 5 Ordos challenge. They did, despite being only 200 DP.

Not only that, but this was the easiest one of my 5 AI controlled ships vs 5 Ordos challenges: no Derelict Operations, no retreats, orders are barely needed, the ships don't even need Hardened Subsystems, and I won on the literal first try. Massive losses were taken, but they could have been avoided for example by saving command points - you can tell I am unused to the fleet because I start assaulting due to fear CR will run out and use commands unnecessarily, being used to faster regeneration from Operations Center.

An immensely, incredibly strong ship and weapon loadout.

Loadout:

(Fighters are Claw-Warthog-Warthog-Warthog)

DCR:


Video:
https://youtu.be/uzDkmvDZUSw
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5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

Thaago

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2023, 12:46:05 PM »

For those how want to know before watching the video, the fighter wings are claw + 3 warthog.

Legions are dope, and have great weapon slots for taking advantage of the current over-tuned weapons! I've always preferred the weapon layout of the normal over the XIV, even though the XIV has better stats, and having medium missiles this version for PCLs is a strong boost.

My "usual" build for Legions is Mjolnir + Mk IX, but between Ordinance Expertise and Tech it really does have the flux to run double Mjolnir! I often don't have the points to have tech on top of my combat skills - especially as you are running industry 5 as well! I'll see if I can get it to work out, but I can put a lot more caps on without needing flux distributor (or even max vents tbh!). I really like armored weapon mounts for the recoil reduction (and armor), but its less needed with gunnery implants.

[Edit] Oh wow the shield arcs from S mod extended shields are really nice there! I should try that on my Onslaught build...

[Second edit] And I know you dislike PD, but I think 2 more of your legions would have lived with even light PD! A single reaper to overload and another to kill for one of them, and shooting down even some of the hammer barrages from the other. It wasn't really a saturation missile attack, just the PCLs being out of ammo not sweeping the sky. (Between ballistic mastery, CR, and S mod ATG, you're already looking at +45% damage to missiles, so even a pair of wing vulcans, leaving the dlacs in place, might have done it!)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 12:59:44 PM by Thaago »
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CapnHector

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2023, 12:56:54 PM »

Yeah I'm running Hull Restoration to get to 100% CR in this build, forgot to say, so it's essentially 1 more skill on the officers. The character skills are these:


To pilot one yourself you could probably drop most of Industry and just drop Gunnery Implants on the officers for Combat Endurance. That would free up 3 points because you need Ordnance Expertise. To get to 5 Combat skill points to get to Missile Spec you can drop the 10 officers skill and make do with 8, and the +elite skills for officers skill.

Many lessons such as the value of S-modded Extended shields were learned from previous fleets. That one in particular can really change a ship.

Edit: @Thaago you make a lot of sense with the PD comment actually. Maybe it really should have a Vulcan somewhere, although my preferred way to deal with this would be to just have enough command points to keep them in a line formation so that they can focus the Radiants. This build is definitely not fully optimized unlike the rest, because it just kind of won immediately without the usual rounds of optimization that I do, and I figured uploading that video would be fun.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 01:11:01 PM by CapnHector »
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5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

Thaago

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2023, 01:09:24 PM »

Thanks for showing! You could even buff the fleet immediately for yourself by shifting your +officers (unused) into more fighter speed. Not a huge boost, but every bit helps!

Dropping gunnery implants would be such a shame! I might even take the CR hit to keep it! Otoh, if combat endurance is in the build eliting it for the hull regen could be nice (though honestly the ships are strong enough that they don't need it until the end, and at that point the regen speed might be too slow vs radiants, though maybe not!).
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Jang

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2023, 02:08:29 PM »

The newly buffed Legion is fantastic, I've been flying it as a flagship for a while now. I like Mjolnir + Heph with armor mods/skills because it can stay in the action longer and can't be shield flickered as easily, but double Mjolnir may be the stronger option. I also put omni-shield on mine because I can turn and burn drive away from opponents while fully protected, but idk if the AI can use that very well
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Hatter

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2023, 03:15:05 PM »

Wow, very impressive! I didn't think that you could solo 5 ordos with Legions. Just going off of DP, the Executor / Paragons / Astrals / Invictus were all 60-50 DP. I wonder if this opens the door to other 40-45 DP ships ordo'ing or if the Onslaught lacks the force projection from the fighters and the battlecruisers are too fragile.

I feel like smod advanced gyros on capitals is just so good as to be nearly mandatory.

Onslaught can mount dual LACs + proximity charges and has an XIV version with more OP to play around with, so it has that going for it.

Maybe double autopulse + S-Mags on the Oddy could do some work, but they're just so fragile (slightly more effective shield HP as a Conquest at max cap, otherwise worse) and the 700 range means knife-fighting Radiants. I'm not sure being the fastest (human) capital makes up for that. At least Conquests can run away instead of charging forward and can mount ballistics.
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sumpf

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2023, 04:32:40 PM »

Nice one!

I tried around with DC legions a bit but mjolnir hadn't crossed my mind.

What I found really effective for high armor ships is using accelerated shields + omni shields. Each on their own is ok, but the combination leads AI to flicker a lot and still not get hit by large stuff

This could free up the s mod slot of extended shields for advanced turret gyros for the bonus damage to smaller ships, which could in turn keep smaller ships at a distance better and could preserve ammunition so even expanded missile racks could get freed up.
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Jang

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2023, 05:11:56 PM »

I like sumpf's suggestions, and I was also wondering about EMR since I didn't find it necessary on my AI Legion. It didn't seem like you were in danger of running out of PCLs in the video, but I did skip around a bit. Anyway this would be my take on the Legion in the OP:

Posted a more effective loadout later in the thread
« Last Edit: July 20, 2023, 01:34:18 PM by Jang »
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BaBosa

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2023, 06:43:47 PM »

The point of accelerated omni shields is you can flicker shield reapers and so go no PD.
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Jang

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2023, 07:03:46 PM »

That makes sense but an overfluxed Legion with no caps doesn't have the shield to tank 2+ reapers at will, so PD is still a useful insurance
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Draba

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2023, 07:26:55 PM »

Dunno about PCL, this is just Legion being Legion :)
It's naturally good against all types of ships so will excel at a challenge like this.

Not using double Cyclone turrets looks like heresy to me, they murderdeathkill fools so much.
Overload with 4 reapers to the face, kill with another 4 ~6.7s later and it doesn't run out even in a 6 Ordo fight:


Completely wrong orders against Radiants so 1 got caught out, Legions are so strong it still survived:




And yep, some vulcans will help a lot and use basically no flux.
The ships have elite ordnance expertise anyway.
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2023, 07:52:19 PM »

Dunno about PCL, this is just Legion being Legion :)
It's naturally good against all types of ships

Except Shades/Afflictors
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CapnHector

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2023, 08:36:35 PM »

Nice one Draba! Both kinds of Legion are just crazy strong aren't they?

Wow, very impressive! I didn't think that you could solo 5 ordos with Legions. Just going off of DP, the Executor / Paragons / Astrals / Invictus were all 60-50 DP. I wonder if this opens the door to other 40-45 DP ships ordo'ing or if the Onslaught lacks the force projection from the fighters and the battlecruisers are too fragile.

I previously thought they couldn't do this one but I was quite clearly proven wrong. Onslaught might possibly do it, it has many of the attributes of the Legion. Conquest I've said previously I don't think it could but that's not due to fragility, just large missiles running out before it's over and being a large part of the ships' firepower, but that too probably needs testing since if you are aggressive enough then maybe Squalls can last, or maybe there's a kooky Cyclone layout that exists. Retribution... let's aim for a little less than 5 Ordos first and see how it goes. Odyssey I actually have no idea.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2023, 08:41:08 PM by CapnHector »
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5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

Jang

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2023, 11:02:11 PM »

That Legion XIV looks really good, definitely gonna try that. CapnHector I was wondering how your weapon groups are set up on your Legion?
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: Power of the Proxy: Demolishing 5 Ordos with 5 Legions (video)
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2023, 11:18:16 PM »

After the buffs it wouldn't surprise me of Legions did better than Onslaughts simply by virtue of being all-turreted.
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