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Author Topic: Pirates.....  (Read 1773 times)

solidus85

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Pirates.....
« on: July 10, 2023, 01:18:55 PM »

Hi, I'm a new player.  Just wanted to leave some feedback about pirates and core worlds.  I understand the intent of the game is to have challenge and I'm cool with that.  I think there might be an issue with pirate strength, with a focus on the core worlds.  Logic would suggest that core worlds would be "relatively" well defended, unless there's some bit to the story I haven't gotten to yet.

My situation is that I'm stuck in Galatia and there are two exits to the system.  They are completely inundated with pirate fleets.  My fleet is not that strong and every attempt I've made has failed.  Im not even strong enough to face the weakest bounty so as a general rule I avoid combat until I have enough money to actually get a decent fleet.  However, in this case I feel that the level of pirate strength is simply non-reasonable and is a bug.

Here are screenshots, first map being the system view w/ number of fleets, and then some subsequent images of pirate fleet strength.  I'm not really looking for suggestions because I'm going to cheat my way through it.  I've tried stealth and all of that and it always leads to an encounter.  I'm not able to outrun them.  My real question is:  is this pirate strength intentional?  Is this a reasonable expectation for what to encounter in terms of being attacked by pirates, especially in systems which are generally considered to be secure?

Map:
https://imgur.com/cgVnOu4

https://imgur.com/xlFbhV1
https://imgur.com/BRF2qSl
https://imgur.com/nYZYwNm
https://imgur.com/uktXXCF
https://imgur.com/xbo496z

All of these fleets are pirates:
https://imgur.com/TZSJ9Ce

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Hatter

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2023, 01:27:09 PM »

If you have a skill point you can spec into Navigation and transverse jump out.

Pirate strength is randomly generated, and they can get stronger than this, none of the fleets even have Atlas MkIIs. How justified this is is up to you.

There are certainly fleets that are not guaranteed to be defeatable. Because of this, managing sensor profile is important early game.
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Network Pesci

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2023, 01:33:08 PM »

In addition to what Hatter said, what is your fleet construction?  Because you should be able to outrun the fleets that overpower you.  You probably can't be expected to fight and beat those fleets, but you can lure them back to the Hegemony station in Galatia and fight them with the station backing you up, making it much easier.
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solidus85

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2023, 01:42:06 PM »

One of the salvage vessels has a max burn of 7, the other ones bottom out at 8.

https://imgur.com/tgKLSkD
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Network Pesci

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2023, 02:14:21 PM »

That is a rough situation.  As Hatter pointed out, you can take the first skill in the Navigation tree (an automatic must-pick in any playthrough for me, not only for the Transverse Jump ability, but it also gives you a burn speed bonus), but that doesn't help you right now if you don't have any free skill points.

As painful as it might be in your shoes, if you are determined to keep going on this playthrough, I would recommend scuttling the Salvage Rig that is dragging down your burn speed to get your fleet speed back up to 8.  You have to be able to choose your fights, which you can't do if every pirate fleet is as fast as you or faster.  Degraded Drive Fields (or whatever it's called) is my least-favorite D-Mod because it affects your entire fleet, not just one ship.
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solidus85

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2023, 02:19:30 PM »

Ok, so if I keep my fleet's lowest burn rating to 8 I should be able to outrun pirates?  I don't mind selling the ship, but I don't want to if I still can't outrun them.
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2023, 02:26:14 PM »

One of the salvage vessels has a max burn of 7, the other ones bottom out at 8.

https://imgur.com/tgKLSkD
If you have the hullmod or can buy it, slap the augmented drive field hullmod on the slower burn ships, move into sensor range of the pirates, and then start moving back towards Ancyra, you can use sustained burn in conjunction with slowing down with s to bait the pirates into the orbital station and the Hegemony patrols. You fleet's speed is determined by the slowest ship.

Alternatively add insulated engines and take the Sensors skill if you have a skill point and use the asteroid field and nebula to reach the jump point undetected, both of these reduce sensor profile.

As another suggested, get the navigation skill, and transverse jump out of the system. If you do this be ready to emergence burn, as you have 0 idea of what is waiting for you in hyperspace.

Take it slow, you have time, you're going to continue getting a stipend from the Galatia Acadamy for many months, which means you won't run out of money. Ancyra will refresh it's weapons and ships once a month, you can get some better stuff if need be.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2023, 02:40:39 PM »

For a system being hit by a pirate raid, yes, I believe that pirate strength is intentional.  Those are very low end barely into the cruiser tier pirate fleets.  Since the game is a sandbox, there are going to be fleets you are not intended to defeat early game.  You could take a commission with the Hegemony, and end up being hostile to Culann and Eochu Bres defense fleets on day 1 which are an order of magnitude or two harder than these fleets.  You simply aren't expected to fight them.

I will point out there are 3 campaign quality of life skills that would make this much easier.  Sensors would reduce your profile and increase your speed while running dark.  Bulk Transport would boost your civilian burn speed to 9 (or even 10).  Navigation would boost burn speed, but more importantly give Transverse Jump which just lets you leave the system from anywhere, not just jump points (although that can be earned elsewhere).  These campaign layer skills can make the campaign layer much, much easier.

However, assuming no Navigation or Bulk Transport skills, no spare story points, and you don't feel your piloting skills and weapon availability are up to the task of taking one of these fleets out, I'd go to Ancrya and install the hullmods Augmented Drive Field, Militarized Subsystems, and Insulated Engines (or at least the ones you know), in that order of priority on your civillian ships. You can only fit 2 of them, but you may only know Militarized Subsystems.  Then either restore (expensive), sell, or scrap any ships whose burn speed was still 8 or less.  Presumably one of the salvage rigs with the burn speed reducing d-mod.  Your fleet can and should be moving at burn speed 9, if not faster.

An early lesson you should take away from this as a new player is burn speed matters.  If your fleet is burn speed 7, then the game while assume you've got capital class combat ships in it and fleets which contain ships weaker than capital ships will be able to catch you on the campaign map.  If your fleet is burn speed 8, it assumes you have heavy combat cruisers in your fleet.

After you've gotten your fleets burn speed up to 9, you have a couple options:
1) Lure one or more fleets into a defensive battle with the station at Ancyra.  Use sustained burn and emergency burn liberally.  Help the station defeat them in detail.  This assumes you are in good standing with the Hegemony.

2) Campaign layer sensor profile and position manipulation.

Step 1: While well away from Ancrya (so probably the far jump point), turn off your transponder, and move a decent distance away from the jump point, such that if you turn your transponder on, turn on sustained burn, and activate a sensor ping, all enemy fleets will see you, but far enough that you've got some time to react to when they do see you. 

Step 2: Turn on transponder, turn on sustained burn, and ping.

Step 3:  Immediately turn transponder off.

Step 4: Move perpendicular to the direction the fleets will be coming from.  Sustained burn being on or off may need to be a judgement call and depends on how far out they can see you. 

Step 5: After a short while, swing around and head to the jump point, and hopefully all the fleets will have passed you, and a sustained or emergency burn should beat them to the jump point even if they see you again.  This is not that different from what you need to do for those stealthy missions to comm relays or that one question mission in Aztlan.

Edit: Ninja'd by others.  Their advice is good.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2023, 02:43:49 PM by Hiruma Kai »
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AcaMetis

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2023, 02:43:24 PM »

For the record it's indeed not unusual to see swarms of pirate fleets like that in a system that's being actively raided by pirates, and they do tend to cluster around jump points, pirate colonies, and (to a lesser extent) gas giants as well as hyperspace right outside the targeted system. Weakly defended systems like Galatia have an especially hard time clearing those pirate fleets out, since there's only few defence fleets active and they're weak enough to get ground down by repeated engagements with pirate fleets. Though even in a system like Askonia you're not guaranteed not to get jumped by a half dozen pirates the moment you jump into a distant jump point.

If you know roughly where a pirate base is located (either by discovering it, a bounty being posted on it, or going to a bar in a system being raided and buying someone there "something more palatable") the intel screen can tell you what system that base is actively raiding, and where to either avoid going or where to look for opportunities.
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solidus85

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2023, 03:06:18 PM »

Ok, thanks for all of the feedback.  I'll adjust my expectations accordingly and I'll see what I can do.
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BaBosa

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2023, 03:52:11 PM »

Ok, so if I keep my fleet's lowest burn rating to 8 I should be able to outrun pirates?  I don't mind selling the ship, but I don't want to if I still can't outrun them.
Generally scrap rather than sell as you actually get more supplies and fuel that way unless there’s a surplus somewhere.
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Sendrien

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2023, 05:39:34 PM »

Hi, I'm a new player.  Just wanted to leave some feedback about pirates and core worlds.  I understand the intent of the game is to have challenge and I'm cool with that.  I think there might be an issue with pirate strength, with a focus on the core worlds.  Logic would suggest that core worlds would be "relatively" well defended, unless there's some bit to the story I haven't gotten to yet.

My situation is that I'm stuck in Galatia and there are two exits to the system.  They are completely inundated with pirate fleets.  My fleet is not that strong and every attempt I've made has failed.  Im not even strong enough to face the weakest bounty so as a general rule I avoid combat until I have enough money to actually get a decent fleet.  However, in this case I feel that the level of pirate strength is simply non-reasonable and is a bug.

Here are screenshots, first map being the system view w/ number of fleets, and then some subsequent images of pirate fleet strength.  I'm not really looking for suggestions because I'm going to cheat my way through it.  I've tried stealth and all of that and it always leads to an encounter.  I'm not able to outrun them.  My real question is:  is this pirate strength intentional?  Is this a reasonable expectation for what to encounter in terms of being attacked by pirates, especially in systems which are generally considered to be secure?

Welcome to Starsector! Always good to see new players trying out this fantastic game.

The pirate strength is absolutely intentional, because the system you're in is currently undergoing a pirate raid (the context of which you will grasp more deeply once you get further into the game).

The suggestions of the veterans who posted above me are extremely valuable, and to that, I would like to add one more approach which has yet to be mentioned.

Try to fight the pirates.

I have reviewed your fleet as well as the pirate fleets. If you're able to draw one fleet away from the group, your fleet is certainly capable of winning that engagement. As a new player, it may not seem that way right now, but you will end up fighting against even more stacked odds as you progress in the game. So it's probably a good idea to use this unfortunate situation as "practice" to find ways to defeat seemingly stronger fleets.

Your Hammerhead, Falcon and Sunder are quite capable ships, and each of them should be able to punch above their deployment cost.

If I had your fleet, I would look upon that Venture/Colossus fleet as a good opportunity to get loot and more importantly, experience for my character.

Don't neglect the power of command points in battle. If one tactic doesn't work, try another. If you find that you're getting flanked too easily, you can always cluster all your ships in one corner of the engagement map using a Rally or Defend command.
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solidus85

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2023, 09:05:28 AM »

The fighting strategy is not working.  I don't know what to say, the ships simply get destroyed by the pirates.  I'm playing on easy so I don't see this notion that my ships are somehow capable of this fight.  Feels like I'm not playing the same game as others on this thread.  Skill only gets you so far.  I'll run away and just fight with overwhelming forces later I guess.
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eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2023, 11:03:47 AM »

The fighting strategy is not working.  I don't know what to say, the ships simply get destroyed by the pirates.  I'm playing on easy so I don't see this notion that my ships are somehow capable of this fight.  Feels like I'm not playing the same game as others on this thread.  Skill only gets you so far.  I'll run away and just fight with overwhelming forces later I guess.
I could build and pilot one of those wolves so I could beat enough of the enemy fleet to freely disengage, if you beat a certain percentage of the enemy fleet in combat, you can disengage without being pursued. It would require safety overrides, but I could make it work. As for actually beating the pirate fleets rather than just breaking through them, I would struggle with your fleet. You have two level two officers, including yourself, and your destroyers and cruiser have 4-5 dmods with exceptionally sub optimal weapon configuration, this isn't your fault again I would be stuck with the same crap despite my experience. Essentially the issue is the pirates have less damaged ships, better loadouts, and possibly more/better officers which is why I didn't recommend directly fighting them.

In time you'll either repair your ships once you have enough credits, buy undamaged versions of them, get better ships and weapons, and get more/better officers. At which point you won't need overwhelming forces, as the ships you'll have at that point will be worth three to four times their weight in equivalent pirate ships.
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Wyvern

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Re: Pirates.....
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2023, 11:13:03 AM »

The fighting strategy is not working.  I don't know what to say, the ships simply get destroyed by the pirates.  I'm playing on easy so I don't see this notion that my ships are somehow capable of this fight.  Feels like I'm not playing the same game as others on this thread.  Skill only gets you so far.  I'll run away and just fight with overwhelming forces later I guess.
Sounds like you might have some bad ship variants, then? The difference in combat ability between a really well-tuned ship variant and a bad one is very high. Could you post* what you're using for weapons/hullmods/vents/capacitors on those hulls?

Especially for early-game pirate-fighting, it may be worth looking at SO builds; a single Hammerhead with Safety Overrides, an assault chaingun, a bunch of machine guns, and a decent number of flux capacitors is quite strong (until it runs out of combat readiness).

* For the record here: your image links are not working for me, so maybe this information is already available?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2023, 11:16:48 AM by Wyvern »
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.
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