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[Alex]

They didn’t used to be. This was changed the last or close to the last patch.

(Looked in SVN just to make completely sure, and they've been turrets since the very beginning.)

[Goumindong]

Really? I could have sworn that I remember squalls there doing the “turn” thing when shot by Astrals.

[Dri]

Lawrence those are turreted missiles. It's basically like old Pegasus except only the front mounts. It is awesome.

So "fake" turrets? Interesting, didn't know that.

The question still stands though. Cyclones are OP expensive, run out quickly and in my experience are easy to shot down or dodge. I feel like just about anything else would be better, even Hammer Barrage.

I think you're the first person I've heard say Cyclones "run out quickly". Then what to Hammer Barrages do? Run out instantly? 20 torpedoes, that is 10 volleys @ 8,000 HE damage. The Cyclones were also buffed this patch and the torpedoes come out accelerated to full speed.

A mere 6 more OP than Squall and Hammer Barrage is expensive? Hurricanes are 25.

[Megas]

Cyclones without extra missiles can run out.

I have tried battlecarrier Astral (with Pulse Lasers), and while not the best brawler, it can murder smaller ships in the sim.

Recall Device can be used to recall non-bomber to protect the ship, and I saw the AI use it like this once recently.  In 0.8a releases when Warthogs were overpowered, I used Recall Device to recall Warthogs to engulf and kill enemies that got too close to Astral.  Kind of similar to a telefrag centered on Astral and the enemy next to it.

I do want to use non-bombers when I have no carrier skills.  Bombers are prone to draining rate, so I stick with non-bombers almost exclusively.

[Dri]

All missiles w/o extra missile can run out, Megas. As for Cyclones running out especially fast, I don't agree.

[Megas]

I did not say they run out fast, just that they can.

[Thaago]

I'm kind of shocked you are running into replacement issues with Talons. 20 second wing rebuild time base is very quick. Then again, they also die fast! Have you tried throwing 1 (just 1) Gladius wing in with them? Their flares should help group survivability without giving up too much of the Talon's firepower, especially vs burst pd that spends its charges right away on flares and is then less effective.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

All missiles w/o extra missile can run out, Megas. As for Cyclones running out especially fast, I don't agree.

They last 100 seconds compared to Hurricane's 150 and Squall's... hovewer long that even is. 160? I think only Hammers and Dragonfires run out faster than Cyclone.

[Goumindong]

Cyclones probably last a bit longer because they are strike.

Also if your missiles run out too fast consider rebuilding in EMR in order to reduce missile refire time.

[Dri]

All missiles w/o extra missile can run out, Megas. As for Cyclones running out especially fast, I don't agree.

They last 100 seconds compared to Hurricane's 150 and Squall's... hovewer long that even is. 160? I think only Hammers and Dragonfires run out faster than Cyclone.

That is in such a massive vacuum and you know it, dude. Who spams Cyclones nonstop? No one, you time properly. Who spams Squalls and Hurricanes? Everyone—these are longer range missiles you usually just toss out there. Haha, how about we increase the refire delay on Cyclone to 20 seconds? Wow, it now lasts 200 seconds! Now it's better right?

Besides, you get 80,000 damage out of the Cyclone in a vacuum, 35,000 out of Hurricane (lol) and 16,000 out of Squall (looooool) and even if every Squall hits a shield it still only does 40,000 max damage.

[Megas]

Who spams Cyclones nonstop?

AI-controlled Rampart, Legion XIV, and Radiant if brawling.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

That is in such a massive vacuum and you know it, dude. Who spams Cyclones nonstop? No one, you time properly.

You do. AI doesn't.

And like half the Reapers will never reach the target.

And I don't think that "it lasts long if you don't fire it" is a good argument.

[BigBrainEnergy]

That would help immensely but isn't it cheating?

Yes, and you should do it anyways.

It was probably designed that way specifically to prevent the kind of strategy you're doing, but if you can pull it off anyways by micromanaging the retreat command then why not make it less tedious?

[CapnHector]

Little update here that I now am making it consistently to the final Radiants of a 5 Ordo with 5 Astrals. Main problem is I keep running out of CR and this thing can't retreat twice. So this is definitely happening but might take a bit of figuring out still.

Let me tell you though I have come to love this ship but man how I have also come to hate the AI. I usually champion it but for this it just doesn't work. I now have actual footage of it just tanking Heavy Blaster shots from full to 10% hull because it keeps turning shields off, at zero flux. I wonder if this stuff would be fixed if I reclassified it as an actual combat carrier in the game files. That would be cheating though so no.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

I know there's a bug where AI will randomly drop shields if you use Shield Coversion - Front. Maybe SC omni is the same?