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[Trensicourt]

Just a general question out there.

They don't feel like an end-game boss to me. I'll be honest, certain fleets in the main storyline are scarier. Even the Doritos are okayish, since you just have to build around their weakness.

I think what makes them seem strong is their officers. But the ships themselves with few exceptions seem arguably meh. Nothing too scary. As long you got enough speed or stopping power to break their momentum, you can hold out. I have some bias since I have been playing this game for a while (maybe not too long by some standards). In general, you can beat most of their fleets without maxing out your DP. In some cases, you can even beat multiple fleets at once as have been show cased.

I don't want them to be too overpowered, but right now they seem like a hodgepodge collective of odd ships that are mostly meh.

[Grievous69]

Nah you're pretty much on point, the ships are all pretty standard except Radiant. What makes them strong are AI core officers. It's a deliberate balancing lever so that the Automated Ships skill isn't a must pick, at least that's my understanding.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

But is it fair to say "Remnant aren't that good unless they have AI Cores" when almost every Remnant fleet will have AI Cores?

As for overall difficulty, the Omega fight is definitely easier than even a single Ordo with a Radiant in it, at least without a flagship. If I remember correctly, the first time I beat the Doritos was with a monofleet of 10 Eradicators without breaking a sweat. Meanwhile I could never get the same Eradicator monofleet to reliably beat an Ordo with a Radiant in it(and that was back when it was 20 DP)

[Grievous69]

Omega fight is specific because some fleets (like the Eradicator one you mentioned) have little trouble dealing with them, but then you have some setups where it's almost impossible simply for the reason that your ships in fleet are countered hard by Doritos. I know I saw 2 Onslaught XIVs both AI controlled beat that fight.

I don't mind it being relatively not super hard, if someone wants fancy weapons let them. The real fight however is the 1.1 million bounty fight which I consider true endgame and try to beat in every single playthrough. I truly wish it was repeatable, or at least something close to it.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

I truly wish it was repeatable, or at least something close to it.

Or if you could at least spawn it in the dev mode. *cough*

[Vanshilar]

I feel like they're "about right". You want the endgame to be hard enough where the player has to take some care in figuring out what ships/skills/weapons/hullmods/etc. to use, but easy enough that a wide variety of ways are possible, and especially considering that not all players are going to necessarily invest that much time into figuring stuff out by reading the forums or watching youtube videos or whatnot to figure out the "best" builds. Then of course the carrot later on for more experienced players is the XP bonus, where you can increase your XP gain by fighting more fleets at once, which means that your fleet is either small and/or can last a long time and/or can kill enemy ships very fast. Right now the XP bonus maxes out at around 3 [REDACTED] fleets (against which you'll almost certainly get +500% XP unless you're using a lot of cores) which seems about right.

I think the officers are kind of meh. Sure, they get more skills than you, and they're all elite, but as far as I know they're the same static skills, so you don't have to worry about Radiants showing up with Systems Expertise or whatever. They're not really optimized for the ships they're on. This severely limits their power compared with what the player can do. Also, of course, the player can put s-mods on his ships while the [REDACTED] won't, and all the other advantages the player gets which I won't bother to list here. For me, in terms of the XP bonus, a beta core counts as much as a Radiant (and an alpha core counts as much as [REDACTED BROCCOLI]), and I'd much rather face a ship with those officers than more of those ships. So I don't mind there being a lot of officers in those fleets.

Also, as a side note, for the forums, in general, "how to fight [REDACTED]" is a much more well-studied question than something like "how to fight stations" or "how to fight [SUPER REDACTED]" or whatever else. So it will seem comparatively easier to its difficulty relative to other fights just because there's so much information about it out there.

[BigBrainEnergy]

I think the officers are kind of meh. Sure, they get more skills than you, and they're all elite, but as far as I know they're the same static skills, so you don't have to worry about Radiants showing up with Systems Expertise or whatever.

They aren't completely static. Some skills are taken every time but the higher tier cores have a decent amount of variability.

[Vanshilar]

They aren't completely static. Some skills are taken every time but the higher tier cores have a decent amount of variability.

As far as I can tell, the skills are:

For Frigates/Destroyers/Cruisers:
Gamma: Helmsmanship, Combat Endurance, Impact Mitigation, Energy Weapon Mastery
Beta: Add Target Analysis, Gunnery Implants
Alpha: Add Damage Control, Field Modulation

For Capitals:
Alpha: Helmsmanship, Impact Mitigation, Damage Control, Field Modulation, Target Analysis, Gunnery Implants, Energy Weapon Mastery, Polarized Armor

I haven't seen any capitals with anything other than an Alpha core. It's basically the same except Polarized Armor instead of Combat Endurance. This is for full Ordos fleet from a full (undamaged) Nexus. No idea if looking at fleets from the same Nexus might affect the probability seed for core skills, but at any rate, I haven't seen any that's different from the above. Hence why I don't consider them that threatening.

[Arghy]

They most certainly are not weak, been playing for over a decade now and my first contact with a high threat system had my S-mod capital fleet with multiple lv7 officers get absolutely pummeled. I used to be able to field 14th battlecarriers but the PD has become so insane all ordinance is pointless against REDACTED fleets. This same fleet wiped the floor with multiple medium fleets without cores but as soon as you add multiple alpha cores that fleet becomes an unstoppable murder machine.

I watched my 3 S-mod paragon with a level 7 officer lose to a 25 DP cruiser, 12 wings of fighters and bombers not even make it into firing range. I'm ditching the paragon for future fights because energy weapons simply cannot do enough shield damage, it's all kinetic weapons with sabot missiles. I'm sure if you chose some absurd gimmick build and microed the *** outta the battle you might be able to handle a fleet but you're not taking on multiple alpha core fleets with the amount of flux they have to play with.

[eert5rty7u8i9i7u6yrewqdef]

They most certainly are not weak, been playing for over a decade now and my first contact with a high threat system had my S-mod capital fleet with multiple lv7 officers get absolutely pummeled. I used to be able to field 14th battlecarriers but the PD has become so insane all ordinance is pointless against REDACTED fleets. This same fleet wiped the floor with multiple medium fleets without cores but as soon as you add multiple alpha cores that fleet becomes an unstoppable murder machine.

I watched my 3 S-mod paragon with a level 7 officer lose to a 25 DP cruiser, 12 wings of fighters and bombers not even make it into firing range. I'm ditching the paragon for future fights because energy weapons simply cannot do enough shield damage, it's all kinetic weapons with sabot missiles. I'm sure if you chose some absurd gimmick build and microed the *** outta the battle you might be able to handle a fleet but you're not taking on multiple alpha core fleets with the amount of flux they have to play with.

Someone already beat 5 ordos with 5 paragons. I think you just need to rework your build.

[Arghy]

Yeah any fleet will become trivialized if you build entirely to defeat said fleet but the point is my fleet was working just fine for the entirety of the game then got demolished by the end game threat. I wanted to try some new mods so i didn't continue that save but i was already building an entirely new capital fleet just for destroying ordos. When you have the money and industry to build an entire capital fleet just to fight a specific threat you've pretty much beat the game already haha.

The entire point is the only way you'll find out if your build works is throwing it into a high threat system and losing everything or winning. I'd say thats a proper end game threat to test an experienced player.