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Starsector 0.96a is out! (05/05/23); Blog post: Colony Crises (11/24/23)

Author Topic: Opinon needed on a system  (Read 819 times)

Pancakeofdooms

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Opinon needed on a system
« on: July 01, 2023, 05:14:42 AM »

i found two amazing worlds but the problem is the system has a neutron star.
im not sure if they effect the AI fleets i don't really want to set up a taskforce and find the logistics are wacked due to them flying into a Neutron beam.
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CapnHector

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2023, 05:18:54 AM »

Actually a colony with a neutron star is optimal. You get all Sindrian ships and S-mod the builtin or S-mod Solar Shields on other kinds of ships, then you can ruin any invading force completely by fighting them in the pulsar beam. I wish I had one.
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2023, 07:52:45 AM »

I thought Neutron Star systems couldn't spawn habitables?
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Wyvern

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2023, 08:40:46 AM »

I thought Neutron Star systems couldn't spawn habitables?
Systems with a neutron star as the primary can't. Systems with neutron stars as secondary binaries can.

As for colonizing such a system: I would not expect it to cause problems from the neutron star's presence... as long as you keep your distance so that the game isn't simulating actual fleets moving around in-system. But this is an expectation, not something I've tested.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Void Ganymede

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2023, 11:22:43 AM »

I colonized one a couple of patches ago.

While in-system, all fleets would get pushed to the outer radius of the beams and invasion combat would happen outside it. Invasions wouldn't reach the planet.

When out of system, the background sim would path to the target successfully and invasions would reach.
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Aeson

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2023, 02:54:36 PM »

My only objection to colonizing a neutron star system is that the presence of a neutron star can make visiting the colony inconvenient, especially if you don't have room for solar shielding on the builds you want to use on most of your ships.

I thought Neutron Star systems couldn't spawn habitables?
Who said anything about habitables? The only things we know about the system are that it contains a neutron star and that it has two 'amazing' colonization candidates.

Also, to be perfectly honest, I'm not certain I'd ever call a habitable world an 'amazing' colonization candidate. Good, yes, because they're usually low-hazard and thus cheap to grow and maintain, but amazing? Habitable worlds have a negative interaction with Corrupted/Pristine Nanoforges and are incompatible with Autonomous Mantle Bores, Catalytic Cores, Plasma Dynamos, and Synchotron Cores, so they're suboptimal locations for most industries, and on top of that Soil Nanites are incompatible with any economically-interesting amount of Rare Ores so one of the things that can make a habitable world an interesting mining candidate despite incompatibility with the Autonomous Mantle Bore also makes it worse for farming. As a result, while habitable worlds are rarely bad colonization candidates, they usually also aren't especially good ones.
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Pancakeofdooms

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2023, 11:16:19 PM »

my problem has been that the hazard rating has killed a lot of my colony's
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Void Ganymede

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2023, 01:20:48 AM »

Habitable worlds have a negative interaction with Corrupted/Pristine Nanoforges and are incompatible with Autonomous Mantle Bores, Catalytic Cores, Plasma Dynamos, and Synchotron Cores, so they're suboptimal locations for most industries, and on top of that Soil Nanites are incompatible with any economically-interesting amount of Rare Ores so one of the things that can make a habitable world an interesting mining candidate despite incompatibility with the Autonomous Mantle Bore also makes it worse for farming.
Choose your Colony!
- (  ) Pastoral Paradise by day, Drug and Organ Farm by night
- (  ) Thermonuclear Sunrise (borrowed planet in major faction's system + missed a bombardment fleet)
- (  ) Hard Vacuum Hellforge planetoid
- (  ) Gaia World but mercantile convoys keep going missing (colonized in [REDACTED])
- (x) Hard Vacuum Hellforge 2: Extra Irradiated
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Aeson

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2023, 08:20:43 AM »

my problem has been that the hazard rating has killed a lot of my colony's
If hazard rating has 'killed' a lot of your colonies then maybe you should stop trying to make them grow until you're in a better financial position.

Habitable worlds have a negative interaction with Corrupted/Pristine Nanoforges and are incompatible with Autonomous Mantle Bores, Catalytic Cores, Plasma Dynamos, and Synchotron Cores, so they're suboptimal locations for most industries, and on top of that Soil Nanites are incompatible with any economically-interesting amount of Rare Ores so one of the things that can make a habitable world an interesting mining candidate despite incompatibility with the Autonomous Mantle Bore also makes it worse for farming.
Choose your Colony!
- (  ) Pastoral Paradise by day, Drug and Organ Farm by night
- (  ) Thermonuclear Sunrise (borrowed planet in major faction's system + missed a bombardment fleet)
- (  ) Hard Vacuum Hellforge planetoid
- (  ) Gaia World but mercantile convoys keep going missing (colonized in [REDACTED])
- (x) Hard Vacuum Hellforge 2: Extra Irradiated
You seem to be missing the point; ideal colony locations aren't about where I'd want to live but rather about what makes the most sense for each industry:
- Farming ideally wants Bountiful Farmland, an Orbital Solar Array, and no Rare Ores whatsoever.
- Mining ideally wants either a gas giant with Plentiful Volatiles or a rock that isn't Habitable and has the closest thing to Ultrarich Ores, Ultrarich Rare Ores, Plentiful Organics, and Plentiful Volatiles you can find.
- Refining and Fuel Production both want an airless rock.
- Light Industry wants a Habitable world.
- Heavy Industry doesn't want to be anywhere in particular, but since a lot of Habitable worlds start at 125% or 150% Hazard Rating and Pollution is +25 points to Hazard Rating, putting it on a Habitable world often isn't particularly better than putting it on some inhospitable rock or over a gas giant.

Mining, Refining, and Fuel Production are unlikely to do better than 150% hazard if you want to use their associated items, Heavy Industry probably isn't going to do much better since it's usually a worse use of a habitable world's industry slots than Farming, Mining, Light Industry, Commerce, or military infrastructure, and hazard rating's a straight multiplier to upkeep costs so a 250%-hazard world isn't actually that much worse than a 150%-hazard world - sure, it's a two-thirds increase in upkeep, but Mining, Refining, and Fuel Production should be making enough, especially when item-boosted, that that's not going to be a particularly significant problem, and Heavy Industry isn't really something you build for the income it generates so as long as it's more or less offsetting its costs that's probably good enough.

Also, 'pastoral paradise by day, drug/organ farm by night' sounds like a murder capital.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2023, 08:26:32 AM by Aeson »
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Kat

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2023, 09:03:08 AM »

a habitable world with soil, I'd put farming, light industry, high command, and maybe something like commerce, or tech-mining if the world has ruins.

mining worlds, ideally without atmosphere, to house mining, a high command, and possibly refining, fuel production, or heavy industry, depending on exact resources present.
Mining worlds often have the hot or very hot modifiers, so are great places for high commands with cryoarithmetic engines installed.

Only a couple things I've seen require plentiful resources and the industry items, which are if you're going to install orbital fusion lamps (10 volatiles) or hypershunt taps (10 transplutonics), or build cryorevival facilities (10 organics). And the placement of the coronal taps and cryosleepers might not be useful.

Other than those, it seems you can get by with less than perfect resource deposits.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2023, 07:12:22 AM »

Also, to be perfectly honest, I'm not certain I'd ever call a habitable world an 'amazing' colonization candidate. Good, yes, because they're usually low-hazard and thus cheap to grow and maintain, but amazing? Habitable worlds have a negative interaction with Corrupted/Pristine Nanoforges and are incompatible with Autonomous Mantle Bores, Catalytic Cores, Plasma Dynamos, and Synchotron Cores, so they're suboptimal locations for most industries, and on top of that Soil Nanites are incompatible with any economically-interesting amount of Rare Ores so one of the things that can make a habitable world an interesting mining candidate despite incompatibility with the Autonomous Mantle Bore also makes it worse for farming. As a result, while habitable worlds are rarely bad colonization candidates, they usually also aren't especially good ones.

As you note, habitable worlds are cheap to grow and maintain.  They also grow faster than their non-habitable counterparts.  It is not uncommon for a habitable world to grow to size 4 without hazard pay, that doesn't happen for hot airless rocks.  Population growth is the primary factor determining how quickly colonies turn into credit printing machines instead of credit sinks.  Plus the rare planet modifier mild climate can boost that even further.

Habitable worlds are also the primary source of organics, a fairly profitable mining product.  Toxic worlds with organics, the only alternative source, are extremely rare.  Like search half the sector and find only one kind of rare.  And a moderate rare ore, moderate ore, moderate organics, trace volatiles mine plus adequate farmland is going to make more credits than a moderate ore, moderate organics plus adequate farmland and Soil Nanites.  Especially once alpha cores and story points come into play.

In my view, an amazing colony world is a habitable, mild climate, with access to farmland and all 4 mining resources.  Simply because that is an immediate, no need to explore the sector for colony items, credit printing machine from day 1.  Throw on a free-port light industry and commerce and you've got an end game profitable colony with almost no time spent on it.

I'd say my best 0.96a habitable colony is the attached screen shot.  And I'd probably call it amazing.  I've also got an airless, extreme heat barren world in the same system with the usual Synchrotron, Corrupted Nanoforge (never did find a pristine one), Catalytic Core, and Cryoarthimetic Engine, Fullerene Spool, Coronal Tap, and a commerce, that makes 430k profit.  Probably would make about 600k if I had another Dealmaker Holosuite, but it took a lot more exploring to get to that point, as well as time to grow and credits thrown at it.  It admittedly is running a Military HQ, which would drop the habitable world's profit by 100k if it replaced the fuel production slot.  System also had a volaties gas giant, and 2 more habitable worlds.
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Daynen

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2023, 09:04:19 AM »

A habitable world is nice for your first planet because it can be grown quickly and cheaply, letting you get defenses up and providing patrols and basic services faster.  Beyond that, I mainly just look for sheer number of planets in a system.  The more planets in a system and the bigger variety of planet types, the better you can stack fleets and the more industries, bars and ports you can plop down without having to burn fuel to go between them.
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Aeson

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Re: Opinon needed on a system
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2023, 03:53:52 PM »

I'd say my best 0.96a habitable colony is the attached screen shot.  And I'd probably call it amazing.
A world that's mediocre in every way except climate hazard and perhaps proximity to a hypershunt is 'amazing?' That world is what it is almost entirely on the back of the alpha cores, items, and story points invested in it, not because of anything inherent to the planet itself. Seriously, for the amount of stuff invested in that colony, an airless rock would hardly be worse and might even be better depending on the mining potential of the rock and what items were available.

Quote
Simply because that is an immediate, no need to explore the sector for colony items, credit printing machine from day 1.
If you want a money-printing machine from day 1, you colonize Penelope's Star - it's right in the Core so the accessibility's naturally good, Thrinakia and Ismara both usually make reasonably profitable mining colonies at size 3, the rest of the system generally isn't bad even if it's also not exceptional, and if you haven't yet looked around to see what's actually good colonies that are profitable at size 3 and won't naturally grow beyond size 3 or 4 are good because they don't take much to set up and can be abandoned with little issue later on if you decide you don't want to keep them.

Also, being able to obtain all of the resources from your own colonies, while certainly not bad, is overrated, and putting both mining and farming on a single habitable world - especially when it's your only colony - usually isn't great because it means you have to choose between Commerce, Light Industry (or maybe other productive industries), and military infrastructure when filling the remaining two industry slots. A Patrol HQ might be enough military infrastructure for a size 3 colony, but even at 9 or 10 stability it's just barely adequate to passively counteract the hostile activity generated by a size 4 or 5 colony and a Mililtary Base on a size 3 or size 4 colony when your main is size 6 isn't a whole lot better.
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