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[CapnHector]

People were saying the Executor is a better Paragon, but that's really not true. Paragon just needs more D-mods. No Omega weapons needed this time. Tri-tachyon created these drones and will take them down!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axhd9EWkqKI


If anyone knows how to fight 6 Ordos or more, let me know, since I was unable to do it by just increasing fleet points.

Q&A

Q: I thought PD was a scam.
A: It is not good on the Executor because for that ship taking soft flux and hard flux is all the same. On the Paragon it is actually good, because soft flux doesn't exist, so if you block the missile you take zero damage, whereas if you don't you might take 2000, for example.

[close]

Also, sorry if anyone feels like I'm posting too many videos. I felt like these are pretty good gameplay content. Anyway, rather than make a billion threads I plan to add videos about my other fun and weird but less powerful Ordo farming fleets like the all Retribution fleet, Colossus Mk. II fleet, and Venture (LP) fleets into this post, so watch this space.

[Cruacious]

Paragon is still the god of High-Tier. Yes, the Executor is a nice ship, but it isn't tanky enough to main-line a fleet for more than a few seconds. The Paragon is the Hammer and the Anvil, all in one.

[Candypowers]

Nice. try with invictus next.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

(HD is still rendering so I didn't watch the whole thing)

I theorized that Autopulse with S-modded Expanded Magazines is new meta for the Paragon in 0.96 - with Advanced Targeting Core it still has a proper "capital" range, 50% more ammo regen makes it a full-fledged main battery and you don't lose as much when the Fortress Shield is activated because you can regenerate ammo in the meantime. Better efficiency than the Plasma Cannon and hard flux unlike the Tachyon.

Have you tried Heavy Needlers in the universals? That's another weapon that should fit well on the Paragon.

Also, have you actually filled all the slots? With PD? Hope you're okay...

[Grievous69]

Wolfs carried the fight smh, false advertising. Jkjk

On a serious note yipeee Missile Autoloader Paragon dream is real! Don't worry you're not posting too much, it's always nice to see other people passionate about the game.

[CapnHector]

Thanks guys! I'll think about if I merge the video library here or make a new thread. Anyway...

Wolfs carried the fight smh, false advertising. Jkjk

On a serious note yipeee Missile Autoloader Paragon dream is real! Don't worry you're not posting too much, it's always nice to see other people passionate about the game.

Yeah I found the missile autoloader quite good here based just on unscientific feels. You'll notice that it didn't get very high numbers but looking at the fight it seems AI is firing them at just the right time so that they act as sort of finishers. However, unlike Harpoons, Breaches with autoloaders hit - and last all the way through even a 5 Ordo fight. They are in their own group so no AI tinkering.

(HD is still rendering so I didn't watch the whole thing)

I theorized that Autopulse with S-modded Expanded Magazines is new meta for the Paragon in 0.96 - with Advanced Targeting Core it still has a proper "capital" range, 50% more ammo regen makes it a full-fledged main battery and you don't lose as much when the Fortress Shield is activated because you can regenerate ammo in the meantime. Better efficiency than the Plasma Cannon and hard flux unlike the Tachyon.

Have you tried Heavy Needlers in the universals? That's another weapon that should fit well on the Paragon.

APL + S-magazines seems great. Mind you APL Paragon was already good but now these are lower hit strength Mjolnirs even after ammo runs out.

Heavy Needler was my first pick, but based on observation I swapped to HVD. That is because I wanted two threat ranges so Remnants can't escape so easily - APL range and then the other is IRAL-HVD-Breach range.

Also, have you actually filled all the slots?

I would never do such a thing to a capital.

With PD? Hope you're okay...

Yeah I'm generally more in the PD is a scam camp but it is actually good here.

The Paragon has functionally infinite soft flux dissipation so turning hard flux to soft is good. By contrast if you're the Executor and are always overfluxed in combat and have .37 shields, then if you spend 200 flux shooting down a missile you could just have taken 1080 HE damage on the shield instead with the same result. That's not even getting to how it often doesn't work and costs OP... But yes here the synergy with Burst PD is too good go pass.

[Alex]

Haha, awesome!

I didn't actually watch the whole video, skipped around a bitlot, so apologies if this should be already clear: are the Radiants just the last to die, or does the AI just always end up deploying them last in this kind of fight? If it's the latter, then that seems like it's probably a bug of some sort.

[Megas]

I didn't actually watch the whole video, skipped around a bitlot, so apologies if this should be already clear: are the Radiants just the last to die, or does the AI just always end up deploying them last in this kind of fight? If it's the latter, then that seems like it's probably a bug of some sort.

Are new ships deployed (almost) as soon as ships die?  That can explain why Radiants or any high DP cost ship gets deployed last.

If Ordos deploy max ships at the start, but cheap ships die at a slow rate, and the enemy deploys new ships as soon as casualties are taken, it may not have the DP to deploy high cost ships like Radiants until the end when it cannot deploy more low cost ships (because they all dead) and wait until it has enough DP to deploy expensive ships.  Until that point, it keeps sending more cheap ships because that is all it can afford with its DP budget right now.

Even if an expensive gets deployed early and then gets killed, will the AI deploy another expensive ship, or randomly choose multiple cheap ships?  Doing the latter will lock in cheap ships until they run out or the player miraculously exploding a bunch of cheap ships simultaneously.

[Hiruma Kai]

Haha, awesome!

I didn't actually watch the whole video, skipped around a bitlot, so apologies if this should be already clear: are the Radiants just the last to die, or does the AI just always end up deploying them last in this kind of fight? If it's the latter, then that seems like it's probably a bug of some sort.

My impression is Novas come out in the first wave, and Radiants genarally come out at the end of any double Ordo fight or bigger.  Which makes sense if the AI is just deploying ships as soon as ships are going down.  Unless a Radiant is in the first wave, all other ships cost less than 60 DP, and if there's spare DP, I think it'll deploy something cheaper immediately, so you never get a 60 DP slot free until the end.  I think this is also why the Apex cruiser tends to come out as a clump towards the end as well (at least in my experience).  At 30 DP, they're more expensive than anything except the capitals.

Or is the AI supposed to wait some time after a ship dies to see if any more die, and then send out a larger wave?

Edit: Apparently Megas was faster with this thought than I was.

[serp]

Also, sorry if anyone feels like I'm posting too many videos. I felt like these are pretty good gameplay content. Anyway, rather than make a billion threads I plan to add videos about my other fun and weird but less powerful Ordo farming fleets like the all Retribution fleet, Colossus Mk. II fleet, and Venture (LP) fleets into this post, so watch this space.

No way, do as many of these tests as you think are interesting! They're fun, at least for someone that hasn't done these tests themself: I was just going to do a run based around gryphons (eventually stomping on ordos like this) but now it looks like they might not be so relatively great for these long 500% fights!

[CapnHector]

Haha, awesome!

I didn't actually watch the whole video, skipped around a bitlot, so apologies if this should be already clear: are the Radiants just the last to die, or does the AI just always end up deploying them last in this kind of fight? If it's the latter, then that seems like it's probably a bug of some sort.

There's a clear choreography to these fights. It starts with smaller ships. Novas are deployed at the start or end. Frigates first, then Fulgents and Scintillas. Brilliants come with the previous. Then Apexes. Finally Radiants. You can see the exact order in the videos, both proceed typically. I don't think I've ever seen a middle or an early Radiant in a 5 Ordo fight, occur with fewer Ordos though. Then and again sample size is not very large either.

There are exceptions but that is the general rule. It's something that helps too, because facing Radiants alongside the frigates would be bad. So mixing it up would make these harder.

Also, sorry if anyone feels like I'm posting too many videos. I felt like these are pretty good gameplay content. Anyway, rather than make a billion threads I plan to add videos about my other fun and weird but less powerful Ordo farming fleets like the all Retribution fleet, Colossus Mk. II fleet, and Venture (LP) fleets into this post, so watch this space.

No way, do as many of these tests as you think are interesting! They're fun, at least for someone that hasn't done these tests themself: I was just going to do a run based around gryphons (eventually stomping on ordos like this) but now it looks like they might not be so relatively great for these long 500% fights!

Thanks! You can definitely power your way through the game towards the Executor or Paragon fleet. (I copied the ships because I didn't want to grind for D-mods but I think they would tolerate most.) They should clear all lower level content in the game just fine too. Should even be an easy game plan due to free Executor from Sindrian quests.

[llama]

I didn't actually watch the whole video, skipped around a bitlot, so apologies if this should be already clear: are the Radiants just the last to die, or does the AI just always end up deploying them last in this kind of fight? If it's the latter, then that seems like it's probably a bug of some sort.

I saw this pointed out in an unrelated youtube video a few weeks back, so it seems like a real pattern (https://youtu.be/OLx2etWGQCU?t=796)

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

I didn't actually watch the whole video, skipped around a bitlot, so apologies if this should be already clear: are the Radiants just the last to die, or does the AI just always end up deploying them last in this kind of fight? If it's the latter, then that seems like it's probably a bug of some sort.

Outside of initial deployment, the AI seems to deploy all remaining ships from lowest DP to highest. I thought that was intentional...

[Grievous69]

This is the biggest plot twist on this forum, lmaoooo. It's been like that for multiple versions, frigates and destroyers first, with cruisers on the side if there's still room. Radiants were always last unless I'm being brainwashed here. This version is slightly different because Novas can appear at the beginning, but that's the only difference. And now we find out that's not intentional...

Same is even true for the 1 mil special bounty, where you need to wait a fair bit to fight the true monsters of that fleet.

[serp]

Thanks! You can definitely power your way through the game towards the Executor or Paragon fleet. (I copied the ships because I didn't want to grind for D-mods but I think they would tolerate most.) They should clear all lower level content in the game just fine too. Should even be an easy game plan due to free Executor from Sindrian quests.

Well, yeah, anything can get through the game, but most usefully to me, these trials might be showing what the AI is good with in the highest stakes endgame fights; usually I'm too absorbed in my piloting while playing to really analyze what my silly ships are doing, and when I do take the time to look I'm usually frustrated lol.

The ships you're testing aren't limited by a harpoon-based lifespan in fights, only  by hull and ppt as they go deeper into ordos, although they seem to require a lot of tactical-map micro by comparison. DO d-mod rolls and fractal weapons kinda complicate any results, of course.

I'm kinda warming up to the idea of 12 gamma glimmers added on, but I don't think I can ask you to do a glimmer mono, they just don't cost enough lol