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[Draba]

It's doable without omega weapons and retreats, maybe the only case making pilum catapult look good.
3 attempts and despite using all cautious officers 1 executor always rushes in to get stuck, then allies block it until it dies.
It's simply impossible to make your fleet keep something like a line formation so just settling for a setup that loses 1 ship.

[serp]

Man the fleet controls are complete ***.

This is why I liked the idea of the gryphons...they have much less need for that fine coordination...sadly, even like 17 or 19 or w/e you have couldn't make it through three ordos without running dry on harpoons.

Edit: it's also why fighter spam is so desirable. Basically, the less chance you give your AI-piloted ships to have utterly idiotic and conflicting positioning, the higher the chance that they will actually use their advantages and assets and come out on top. Guided (strong emphasis lol) missiles and fighters are the best at that...although hyperions aren't bad either. Too bad the latter got quite nerfed as well, recently

[CapnHector]

It's doable without omega weapons and retreats, maybe the only case making pilum catapult look good.
3 attempts and despite using all cautious officers 1 executor always rushes in to get stuck, then allies block it until it dies.
It's simply impossible to make your fleet keep something like a line formation so just settling for a setup that loses 1 ship. ...

Very nice refinement! I'm going to need your help on the Invictus, that is a tough nut to crack 

I was going to say congrats to Executor for joining the 5 ships 5 ordos without Omega weapons club alongside Paragon, but then I realized that's 6 ships. Well, 5 ordos 240 dp club might be more reasonable anyway. Executor is probably in the 5 ships 5 ordos category too, just need to dial in the build completely.

[Draba]

I was going to say congrats to Executor for joining the 5 ships 5 ordos without Omega weapons club alongside Paragon, but then I realized that's 6 ships. Well, 5 ordos 240 dp club might be more reasonable anyway. Executor is probably in the 5 ships 5 ordos category too, just need to dial in the build completely.

The infuriating part is that when they form a line they walk over anything, Radiants included. 5 already came close to winning without losses.
It's just absolutely guaranteed that 1 will suicide in a 20 minute battle.


This was the end of the 2nd attempt, 2 ships just park behind the one being gangbanged and do nothing but block its escape and move backwards with it for a solid 30 seconds.
If you try to give them a waypoint to the side they ignore it, if you give an eliminate order they slingshot into the middle of the enemy fleet (for some reason they tend to turn at full speed, instead of doing it in place).
I know because I've sent most of the last 2 versions fighting the controls

[CapnHector]

Yeah that's where the Reinforced Bulkheads and Damage Control stuff came from. Your method of focusing on offense might still be better.

My newest trick in these situations is to issue a retreat command to the one above while the one below receives an eliminate order somewhere. It probably wouldn't have been fast enough to help here.

[Draba]

Yeah that's where the Reinforced Bulkheads and Damage Control stuff came from. Your method of focusing on offense might still be better.

My newest trick in these situations is to issue a retreat command to the one above while the one below receives an eliminate order somewhere. It probably wouldn't have been fast enough to help here.

Yeah, usually trying eliminate or waypoints to the side on the ones in the back.
It basically never helps, if one gets in a position like this it'll get smashed and there is nothing you can do about, best case is armor gone and some hull damage.
Eliminate in particular almost always gets the new ship deeper than where the original was.

What kinda helps is trying to form a line before contact, but good luck with that if there is a solitary frigate anywhere close (not that it's easy with no a disctraction, either ).

[crvt]

I generally have a better chance of keeping the line formation when I give individual rally waypoints to each ship, forming a line with the waypoints behind the actual ships.
Still doesn't guarantee ships not blocking each other, but more stable.

[Goumindong]

You have only 3 waypoints for 5 ships. Try using 5 for 5 ships and spread them out a bit.

[TerranEmpire]

Well I tried to argue for better fleet coordination AI elsewhere, but the end result was that I was educated that the role of the escort is body blocking

But yeah, ships breaking formation and suiciding themselves are really infuriating.

[Draba]

You have only 3 waypoints for 5 ships. Try using 5 for 5 ships and spread them out a bit.

Did more waypoints for a long while, the problem is ships on the side will inevitably wander too far and get isolated.
Can often solve it by noticing it in time and sending another ship far ahead or on eliminate, but in 20-25 minutes it's basically guaranteed there will be an unsalvageable situation.
Manages to take engine ion damage through 360 shields from frigates at 0 flux, closest ship doesn't feel like helping so ignores waypoint, closest ship is set to eliminate and after a 3 sec acceleration is on an unfixable course for the middle of the enemy fleet.
(as a reference, even set to defend a control point ships can be way more than 2 full 3x3 grid cells apart)
The game is also trying to prevent you from doing that: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=26155.0


In the later stages with the enemy frigates/destroyers gone you can use individual waypoints (or batches of 3, in the long video).
There the main problem is a ship with 800 base range elite ballistics as the shortest range weapons still go too close to isolated high flux enemies.
Losses there usually come from multiple Executors wrapping around a single Apex in front, and even if you try to pull it back the one on the side is too far out of position by the time radiants jump in.

[Megas]

Nitpick about Railgun Executor.  Railguns cannot be mounted in medium hybrid mounts.  Small ballistics and energy weapons do not fit in medium hybrid mounts.

[CapnHector]

Wow nice catch! How'd that happen anyway? Megas, you have 11411 posts. Any idea about how to make this build better, or the Invictus one?

[Megas]

I tried to mount Railguns in the hybrids after watching the video, only to discover that was impossible on both Pegasus and Executor.

I do not have any better ideas on making the ships better.

With Ballistic Rangefinder, four Railguns, two HVDs, it costs about 7(?) more OP than using five HVDs up front and an Arbalest on the bottom, but HVD dissipation is more, so it evens out, if the player has enough dissipation (which probably requires Ordnance Expertise).

[Draba]

I tried to mount Railguns in the hybrids after watching the video, only to discover that was impossible on both Pegasus and Executor.

I do not have any better ideas on making the ships better.

With Ballistic Rangefinder, four Railguns, two HVDs, it costs about 7(?) more OP than using five HVDs up front and an Arbalest on the bottom, but HVD dissipation is more, so it evens out, if the player has enough dissipation (which probably requires Ordnance Expertise).

That's a big oversight on my part, forgot the hybrid downsize thing.
Ballistic rangefinder isn't that important for the railguns, 25 OP can also be spent on vents, thrusters, optics or something similar.
No other ballistics have the combination of projectile speed/turnrate/accuracy/efficiency though. HVD doesn't have enough DPS and ships get overwhelmed very fast.
Since magazines are built in already thumper also sounded usable on paper (goal is to swat frigates in the back), yeah it's just bad.
Arbalest spam is the next best thing, less flux needed but slower against the frigate spam stage.

Wow nice catch! How'd that happen anyway?

For experimenting I just edit the ships from the save instead of going home, refit, jump back, herd and pull again.
Can try much more loadouts as long as I don't dk up with something like putting S ballistics in M hybrids

[CapnHector]

The difference between 5x HVD which I used for the winning run and 5x Railgun is only 145 kinetic dps though. But a big issue with HVD is rate of fire. Funnily enough you could sub Pulse Laser for railgun in the hybrids I think if you can handle the flux, they have the same range due to EBC if you don't have BRF and almost same anti shield dps.

Personally I still think 5x HVD may be the way because then you outrange the capitals and then you put Locusts to survive frigate spam, but I haven't re-tried this run yet so that's just a theory.