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Author Topic: Destroying 5 Ordos with 5 Gigacannon Executors (The Dream Battle: Revengeance)  (Read 19876 times)

Lawrence Master-blaster

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Damage Control is definitely not a "kinda-sorta" skill here. They need all that hull HP and you can look for example at the retreats, how would they go if the engines took 2x that time to repair and the ship took 33% more hull Damage.

The engines would take no damage whatsoever if you just put a single(1) Flak Cannon in the rear medium ballistic slot. But I guess then it wouldn't be a "no PD" meme build.
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Hiruma Kai

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Start watching from the 8:30 mark in the most recent video CapnHector added to the opening post.  There is clearly a Brilliant coming up behind hitting with a Tachyon Lance.  Flak cannon wouldn't help with that.  Yes, some missiles get through, but the last ship, while turning is taking direct fire hits to the engine, not just missiles.

To pull off a retreat like this without losses typically either requires a fast player flagship, an omni-shield ship, a phase ship, or something with high engine hp plus quick repair times.  This fleet uses the last one.
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Draba

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Also the reason damage control can be kinda-sorta used as the 6th skill, with normal missiles spec is mostly mandatory (I'd still get it here for more HP and damage).

Damage Control is definitely not a "kinda-sorta" skill here. They need all that hull HP and you can look for example at the retreats, how would they go if the engines took 2x that time to repair and the ship took 33% more hull Damage. I didn't just stick in Damage Control and call it a day you know. ;) I started from the assumption that this should have Ballistic Mastery and Missile Specialization, even had a go with EWM. I eventually ended up with the current skills due to these being the only ones I could beat this number of Ordos reliably with, you just need a ton of endurance.

...
I still don't like Rift Torpedo or the EMP thing. I have those so I could have put in Rift, but chose not to. Seems too ineffective and hard for AI to use even if occasionally spectacular.
Point was that it can be considered because some overpowered weapons let you skip missile spec and save lots of OP (without resonators this'd probably go poorly). Even here my bet it's a waste and other skills would do better.
Generally damage control would be on par with impact mitigation on most ships, but the impact mitigation elite is no contest better for almost everything that can take hull hits and there aren't enough skill points for both.
Especially not enough on hull tanks that could also consider using polarized armor or ballistic mastery.

Buffed rift torpedo is very strong, just not with fleets that have trouble against frigates without missiles.
Since it doesn't wipe 1/3 of the flux pool on cruisers it's hard to use it wrong now, turns out Radiants don't like 6K damage energy tanks slamming into them :)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 07:56:12 AM by Draba »
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TerranEmpire

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Start watching from the 8:30 mark in the most recent video CapnHector added to the opening post.  There is clearly a Brilliant coming up behind hitting with a Tachyon Lance.  Flak cannon wouldn't help with that.  Yes, some missiles get through, but the last ship, while turning is taking direct fire hits to the engine, not just missiles.

To pull off a retreat like this without losses typically either requires a fast player flagship, an omni-shield ship, a phase ship, or something with high engine hp plus quick repair times.  This fleet uses the last one.

Hmm Apogee has good shields, large energy and large missile. And 360 coverage. Is it possible to do 3+ ordo with Apogee? How would you build it?
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Draba

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Hmm Apogee has good shields, large energy and large missile. And 360 coverage. Is it possible to do 3+ ordo with Apogee? How would you build it?
3 is possible without retreating, Apogee does have a problem with Radiants though.
Not tanky enough to survive alone, not fast enough to retreat so losing 1 or 2 caught out happens often if there is nothing tanky to help out.
Can't fight 4 or more with a 240 fleet in the base game so didn't try, but going above running out of missiles probably becomes a limit.
Really need them for hard flux, otherwise it has to drop range to get plasma cannons and get swarmed/kited.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 07:44:00 AM by Draba »
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Hmm Apogee has good shields, large energy and large missile. And 360 coverage. Is it possible to do 3+ ordo with Apogee? How would you build it?

In my experience Apogee spam works poorly even against double Ordo. The HIL just doesn't cut it as the main anti-armor weapon. Plus the ship is tight on OP.
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Draba

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Damage Control is definitely not a "kinda-sorta" skill here. They need all that hull HP and you can look for example at the retreats, how would they go if the engines took 2x that time to repair and the ship took 33% more hull Damage. I didn't just stick in Damage Control and call it a day you know. ;) I started from the assumption that this should have Ballistic Mastery and Missile Specialization, even had a go with EWM. I eventually ended up with the current skills due to these being the only ones I could beat this number of Ordos reliably with, you just need a ton of endurance.
(without resonators this'd probably go poorly). Even here my bet it's a waste and other skills would do better.
Was curious so gave it a spin, 5 ordos can comfortably be done with a more or less "standard" setup (no losses, no retreat cheese).
Main diff is only 3 having autolances, no other ships to get hard kinetic from.
Yeah, resonators are just that good.




Result
Spoiler
[close]

By the time CR starts to tick down they are already eating the radiants, might be possible to go for 6
Spoiler
[close]
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 03:21:25 PM by Draba »
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CapnHector

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Nice job! Any chance of a video so I can see how you play it? Does it beat my setup if you only have 2 ships with Resonators like I did? I guess going for the range and having more Resonators is helping you kill them that much faster that no retreats are needed so Damage Control is also not necessary. Genuinely surprised you didn't have trouble with frigates and fulgents without any maneuverability booster but I guess that's the power of the Resonator (and maybe better command skills than I have).

Thinking about how to do this without Omega weapons. I wonder if you could swap from HIL to APL to be better vs shields and still have a fighting build.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2023, 08:01:42 PM by CapnHector »
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5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

Draba

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Nice job! Any chance of a video so I can see how you play it? Does it beat my setup if you only have 2 ships with Resonators like I did? I guess going for the range and having more Resonators is helping you kill them that much faster that no retreats are needed so Damage Control is also not necessary. Genuinely surprised you didn't have trouble with frigates and fulgents without any maneuverability booster but I guess that's the power of the Resonator (and maybe better command skills than I have).
Frigates are annoying, but hugging the corner and resonators make them manageable.
Elite TA ion beam also gives you lots of free kills on flamed out small fry, speeds things up a lot and also neuters novas/radiants.
Didn't tweak the loadout so might be possible with only 2 resonators, won't be fun though :)
1 obvious improvement is dropping the flak in the back and putting a kinetic gun there, paired with builtin mag burst PD lases takes care of ion frigates.

Thinking about how to do this without Omega weapons. I wonder if you could swap from HIL to APL to be better vs shields and still have a fighting build.
Problem is you likely won't have enough to get through armor.
1 case where the gigacannon might be worth it: low flux so can get heavier kinetic, instantly overloads frigates for autolance.


A video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRtZFB8ZqG4
(excuse the speedup, over 15 min and verified account is for other uses)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 06:46:56 AM by Draba »
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crvt

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Trying my hand at an Executor build(with resonators in this case).
I wanted to try and make use of the built-in module + focus on energy weapons & drop ballistics skill.


I try to put 3 gravitons on pretty much any capital that can.

Autopulses may be should be on different weapon groups, or AI will waste shots when turning. But it also sometimes makes it target two different ships with them which isn't ideal.

For EMP, I wanted to have at least something to prevent ship retreats & to catch Radiants teleporting in.

Tried various options, such as getting an Ion beam, or using hypervelocity driver, etc. They all seem to work. Might need a second Ion beam though, one isn't always enough even with the elite officer skill.
I can see another option would be putting in more IR Autolances in the hybrid slots, and using frontal ballistics for hypervelocity drivers instead. But between cryoblaster and autolances, there seems to be more than enough fragmentation damage.
Having expanded magazines makes it very tempting to use more IR's, thoughs.

Could also drop the cryoblaster for some flux heavier weapons in the ballistic slots, or make use of the small mounts to spend some extra OP/flux.

It has a very strong burst; the capacity of this thing to just delete ships feels the same as a well-built Radiant, just without the mobility system.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 08:36:35 AM by crvt »
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Hiruma Kai

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Looking at some of these officer skills set choices different people are using, it is quite possible those random level 7 officers that one sometimes finds (up to 4 I'll note), might actually make decent Executor officers, given an Executor can clearly take advantage of every single skill in some way or other.  Technically, they can take advantage of Elite Energy Weapon Mastery since -10% flux between the IR autolance and HIL is technically 86 less flux build up and the bonus damage kicks in when enemies are right up in your face like the Ordos are.  Elite Ballistic Mastery would definitely help Arabelsts hit out farther.  And Missile Specialization increases missile hit points and damage, so even the Resonators benefit somewhat.  System Expertise gives more HEF uptime.  Ordinance Expertise and Combat Endurance are definitely wanted.  Defensive skills all help, and so does Helmsmanship in terms of turning to target and speed.

About the only thing CapnHector's build couldn't take advantage of is the Point Defense, and even that makes the IR Autolances kill fighters faster.
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CapnHector

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Trying my hand at an Executor build(with resonators in this case).
I wanted to try and make use of the built-in module + focus on energy weapons & drop ballistics skill.


I try to put 3 gravitons on pretty much any capital that can.

Autopulses may be should be on different weapon groups, or AI will waste shots when turning. But it also sometimes makes it target two different ships with them which isn't ideal.

For EMP, I wanted to have at least something to prevent ship retreats & to catch Radiants teleporting in.

Tried various options, such as getting an Ion beam, or using hypervelocity driver, etc. They all seem to work. Might need a second Ion beam though, one isn't always enough even with the elite officer skill.
I can see another option would be putting in more IR Autolances in the hybrid slots, and using frontal ballistics for hypervelocity drivers instead. But between cryoblaster and autolances, there seems to be more than enough fragmentation damage.
Having expanded magazines makes it very tempting to use more IR's, thoughs.

Could also drop the cryoblaster for some flux heavier weapons in the ballistic slots, or make use of the small mounts to spend some extra OP/flux.

It has a very strong burst; the capacity of this thing to just delete ships feels the same as a well-built Radiant, just without the mobility system.

Neat!

If you're not constrained by DP like I was in the OP, you could go to Xyphos for your Radiant defense Ion Beams maybe? That was good last version. I would certainly have added CH+support fighters to my builds if I didn't have to fit stringent DP requirements.

One fun thing you could do with a Expanded Magazines build is put a Mining Blaster in one of the front slots. It's probably not suitable for AI and overall meme material because bad flux efficiency but player could use it because it also benefits from HEF. Cryo by contrast is probably one of the best guns in the game so usually if you have enough support for that it's great. Probably goes well with APL due to their lower flux requirements and also because they work to lower shields.

One thing to be careful about if you're getting your kinetics from Graviton is it does not work vs Radiants. Too much flux dissipation so soft flux might as well not exist even if you bring a ton of it. Resonator probably covers you though.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 10:55:20 AM by CapnHector »
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5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

crvt

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The kinetics from gravitons are mostly just a nice bonus, I'm bringing them for a 10% damage boost to everything else. This variant has less soft flux afaik. There's also the option to use hybrid mounts for more hard kinetics if needed, but so far it's been doing okay as is.

So far I have mixed feelings on the front short-ranged weapons, maybe it'd be better to just replace them with HVC's. The current setup comes into play nicely when enemy is running into Executors(e.g. we sit in a corner and defend), and also if Executors are camping the enemy deployment point. Mid field though, they don't really get to fire all that much(the enemy ships either die or retreat before they get into range of those guns, except for maybe a couple volleys).
1k range HVCs(or maybe with an odd mauler) would provide nice amount of EMP, and could go for some other anti-armor options instead of Ion Beams on the hybrid or energy slots.

Autopulses are hit and miss...they are a great burst with hard flux that also chews through armor, and generally they perform well whenever the ship manages to focus fire something. But there's a danger of having them target separate ships, fluxs both, run out of charges + let them retreat on top of that.
It is more or less avoided by having the Executors be close together, since there's enough focus fire overlap that it doesn't matter who targets what. But still, plenty instances of shots missed.
I might try to replace them with smth else, but the mount positions are awkward. I can see why you went with the beams there.
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crvt

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I ended up going with 3x Hypervelocity Drivers, 3x Gravitons and 3x IR Autolances, with no other changes.
The extra range makes it a bit more versatile.
Weapon flux shows 1380/s with 100/s shield and 1624 dissipation.
In reality, between Energy Weapon Mastery, Expanded Magazines increasing charge recovery rate of Autopulses and Autolances, it is actually pretty much flux neutral in sustain mode. (The burst gets it up to half flux until charges on everything run out, stable afterwards)
I experimented with Heavy Maulers in hybrid slots, and while they did plenty armor damage, it was somewhat underwhelming otherwise. Autopulses strip most of the armor by far, don't really need anything else for that.
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Draba

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Seems like after a bit of tweaking it'd be possible to clear 5 ordos without omega weapons, elite ballistic railguns+autolances destroy small ships at a nice pace and HIL chews up the big things.
Control over your ships is just so unbelievably bad and they are so completely stupid 1 always gets caught halfway through, or 2 fresh ones hide behind an overfluxed ally while it gets gangbanged by a nova and 5 fulgents.
When not doing that they swing HIL around in the air or just ignore an eliminate order. Maybe ignore that I'm trying to drag them back, what the everloving frig would a lone capital do 2 full cells away from allies defending the same objective as them.
Man the fleet controls are complete ***.

Nvm, something like this could work with some adjustments. Or just go derelict and no need for adjustments, should be simple with 6 deployed
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 06:59:08 PM by Draba »
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