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[Aeson]

Yup same thoughts here, only thing is that Sensors skill would lose a part of the perk, maybe change that so "Going Dark" gives a small boost higher than regular slow speed.

Are you suggesting that "Going Dark" should be the intermediate speed, at least with the Sensors skill speed bonus? Why would you do it that way? The main point of "Going Dark" is, or at least should be, the stealth bonus; it remaining at the current 'slow' speed while hazard-avoidance got promoted from the current 'slow' speed to the current 'standard burn' speed would be fine and the Sensors skill's speed perk could be left unchanged.

Also, if the "Going Dark" speed were higher than the hazard-avoidance speed then presumably navigational hazards would be a problem for it, which would be annoying, and if navigational hazards weren't an issue for it you'd just exacerbate the current "why would I use standard burn instead of Going Dark" issue.

[Grievous69]

I mean yeah, we'd still leave the current situation of never needing to hold S to slow down. You can either Go dark or just not care. If there is a place for such a delicate mechanic, then perhaps avoiding some rare and crazy dangers could be a place for it. Not incredibily common and annoying asteroids and hyperstorms.

Asteroid impacts has got to be one of the most useless and annoying additions to the game since its first playable version. Aw man I like getting knocked off course and coming to a screeching halt just because RNGeesus decided "screw this fleet in particular".

[Mortrag]

The usefulness of "going slow" seems like a matter of playstyle.

I use the S-key a lot:
- for travelling through storms, because the extra supply-cost isn't worth the random speed-boost in my opinion
- for travelling through asteroid fields, because it's just easier than to go dark and to activate the transponder afterwards (and remember that)
- for making narrow turns while using sustained burn, cause I've seen something interesting besides my path

[Grievous69]

You could disable then reenable Sustained burn to quickly detour, using S to slow down wastes time since SB has horrible maneuverability and acceleration. First two points are just showing the annoyance of some hazards so players either tip toe avoid them or go slow (saving supplies) or just go through them pinballing everwhere (saving real life time).

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

I love when people try to sell an actual in-game choice as an "annoyance".

[Mortrag]

You could disable then reenable Sustained burn to quickly detour, using S to slow down wastes time since SB has horrible maneuverability and acceleration.

Using S has horrible maneuverability and acceleration? Are we playing different games?

If I'm flying with burn 18 or 20 and setting course to a new target 90 degree off of my original course:
- keeping just sustained burn on may lead to an approach from an angle between 45 and 240 degree off the course (depending on the distance to the new target)
- pressing and holding S while turning reduces that to 5 -  10 degrees off
- deactivating and activating sustained burn leads to a similar approach, but 1) takes a second or two longer, because of the time sustained burn needs to reactivate (personal estimation) and 2) atleast for me it's more complicated to use because the left hand is on the WASD-keys from the so and also pressing 'S'-holding-releasing allows for more smoth movement (and adjustment) than pressing '5'-waiting-pressing '5' again.
(All of that is at normal game-speed, if that matters.)

[Grievous69]

No I meant Sustained Burn is too sluggish, holding S is just like normal burn speed but you're super slow.

I love when people try to sell an actual in-game choice as an "annoyance".

Getting kicked in the head and getting kicked in the balls is also a choice, doesn't mean it's a good choice. One path rewards you with wasting time, and the other wastes your supplies unless the whole fleet has Solar Shielding. Asteroids are even worse because it is a chance based hazard, and both choices waste your time (going slow vs getting knocked). Stellar design truly.

EDIT: If a single living being here enjoys getting hit by asteroids I have some fun activies to suggest in free time.

[Aeson]

Using S has horrible maneuverability and acceleration? Are we playing different games?

Depends when you're using it. Pressing 's' when moving to LMB-click on the main game screen will cause the player fleet to stop entirely and in that case you don't resume course/speed when you release the key, which is not always desirable.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

One path rewards you with wasting time

If you feel like playing the game is a waste of your time, don't play it.

FYI, I am 99% sure the asteroid hits are biased to never actually do damage on the first hit, which means all they do is slow you down a bit(which can have large gameplay consequences if i.e. you are being pursued); therefore this argument is truly even below the "I have to press a button to cross a slipstream" one.

And since this also apparently needs to be explained, yes, slowing down when Going Dark is very much necessary because it means NPCs that could detect you are faster than you, which is a core mechanic in almost every stealth game ever made.

[Grievous69]

Crossing a slipstream is way less annoying than hitting an asteroid at full burn. It adds nothing meaningful to gameplay of such game.

If you feel like playing the game is a waste of your time, don't play it.

Don't put words in my mouth please.

Why are we suddenly comparing Starsector to stealth games. This is absurd to go so far just to defend something that doesn't need to be defended. You can make obstacles without them being boring.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

Crossing a slipstream is way less annoying than hitting an asteroid at full burn. It adds nothing meaningful to gameplay of such game.

It adds a feedback of "Hey, there are asteroids there".

Why are we suddenly comparing Starsector to stealth games.

Because it has stealth elements.

[Grievous69]

Why are we suddenly comparing Starsector to stealth games.

Because it has stealth elements.

Spoiler

[close]

[Gothars]

If anyone is interested, I just found Sundog's Mod Nomadic Survival which addresses the shortcomings I pointed out in the OP

If a single living being here enjoys getting hit by asteroids I have some fun activies to suggest in free time.

It adds nothing meaningful to gameplay of such game.

Well, I enjoy asteroids the same way I enjoy holes in a jump and run: by successfully avoiding them. Or, occasionally, shaking off enemies by making them avoid the hits.

I think it's really good that your fleet interacts with the terrain, it makes both feel more substantial.

[Aeson]

Well, I enjoy asteroids the same way I enjoy holes in a jump and run: by successfully avoiding them. Or, occasionally, shaking off enemies by making them avoid the hits.

I think it's really good that your fleet interacts with the terrain, it makes both feel more substantial.

I don't have a problem with the player fleet having terrain interactions; I do have a problem with holding down 's' the whole time I'm in Magec or Isirah or crossing a wide patch of hyperstorms or whatever when I don't want to turn off the transponder and thus don't want to run dark - especially because it's significantly more convenient to make temporary course changes by left-clicking in the main game screen than by opening the map up and right-clicking, but even tapping 's' while flying a course set by left-clicking in the main screen causes the fleet to come to a stop.

Also, what's the use-case for "standard burn" speed? It's too fast for hazard avoidance, it's significantly less stealthy but (especially with the Sensors skill) little faster than darkened running (and if you're actually running a stealth fleet, that becomes even worse, because it's entirely possible to have fleets that have sensor profiles of only like 150 or 200 with Sustained Burn active, especially if you're willing to spend story points and built-in hullmod slots on Insulated Engine Assemblies for at least your big ships and thus have battleships with the nominal sensor profile of a phase frigate), it's too much slower than Sustained Burn for regular travel when you don't care about stealth, and it's not actually much if any better for hunting other fleets than any other speed because it gives any fleet that's afraid of you too much time to react whereas coming in hot and fast on Emergency or Sustained Burn can often catch a fleet before it decides to bolt (and even if you don't catch them before they bolt, Emergency/Sustained Burn can also let you run down pretty much anything given time even if you for some reason haven't put Augmented Engines on that battleship or don't have Bulk Transport boosting those Atlases you're dragging along or haven't included tugs in your fleet) while Going Dark, especially with some phase ships in the fleet, can let you creep up almost right on top of the target before it sees you coming.

[Doctorhealsgood]

Well, I enjoy asteroids the same way I enjoy holes in a jump and run: by successfully avoiding them. Or, occasionally, shaking off enemies by making them avoid the hits.

I think it's really good that your fleet interacts with the terrain, it makes both feel more substantial.

I don't have a problem with the player fleet having terrain interactions; I do have a problem with holding down 's' the whole time I'm in Magec or Isirah or crossing a wide patch of hyperstorms or whatever when I don't want to turn off the transponder and thus don't want to run dark - especially because it's significantly more convenient to make temporary course changes by left-clicking in the main game screen than by opening the map up and right-clicking, but even tapping 's' while flying a course set by left-clicking in the main screen causes the fleet to come to a stop.

Also, what's the use-case for "standard burn" speed? It's too fast for hazard avoidance, it's significantly less stealthy but (especially with the Sensors skill) little faster than darkened running (and if you're actually running a stealth fleet, that becomes even worse, because it's entirely possible to have fleets that have sensor profiles of only like 150 or 200 with Sustained Burn active, especially if you're willing to spend story points and built-in hullmod slots on Insulated Engine Assemblies for at least your big ships and thus have battleships with the nominal sensor profile of a phase frigate), it's too much slower than Sustained Burn for regular travel when you don't care about stealth, and it's not actually much if any better for hunting other fleets than any other speed because it gives any fleet that's afraid of you too much time to react whereas coming in hot and fast on Emergency or Sustained Burn can often catch a fleet before it decides to bolt (and even if you don't catch them before they bolt, Emergency/Sustained Burn can also let you run down pretty much anything given time even if you for some reason haven't put Augmented Engines on that battleship or don't have Bulk Transport boosting those Atlases you're dragging along or haven't included tugs in your fleet) while Going Dark, especially with some phase ships in the fleet, can let you creep up almost right on top of the target before it sees you coming.

not sure if you noticed but standard burn is way more manouverable than sustained burn