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Author Topic: Raise the level cap to 20  (Read 2229 times)

Princess_of_Evil

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2023, 11:39:50 PM »

Also some are more for the early game, some for the later game. E.g. additional storage is super useful when you're starting out and can't easily bring more freight capacity but later on the bonus from that skill becomes less important.
That one is actually one of the strongest industry skills for the early game, considering that it literally halves both your fuel usage and supply usage for exploration.
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Buggie

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2023, 12:04:22 AM »

The problem is Leadership is mandatory, pick which of the other three trees to dump.  If player wants the other three trees but no Leadership instead, then the only other option left that might compete with Leadership builds is Ziggurat with Omega weapons cheese.

Odyssey, conquest, paragon, onslaught, prometheus mk2, afflictor, doom, aurora, apogee, eradicator, tempest(yes, its possible and i've done it), hyperion, manticore, sunder, hammerhead.

Off the top of my head these are all the ships i have succesfully killed 2+ ordos fleets(no safety overrides or omega weapons)  with my build while doing the vast majority of the work, this build only takes coordinated maneuvers, and if i happen to be focusing on a destroyer or frigate, then wolfpack tactics as well, with every other point going towards player based skills. Leadership skills are good, but they're definitely not mandatory if you're just great at the game. I'd even go as far as saying that if you're piloting some specific ships like odyssey, conquest and doom, its actually better to go full player than going leadership. The amount of control a player has over the fight when he uses everything available to him is insane, and thats with my personal rule of never using so. If you do factor in so its not even a contest, a player on basically any ship will be better than going leadership in that case.
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TaLaR

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2023, 01:31:47 AM »

Leadership has strong effectively-personal effects.
- Wolfpack is one of strongest skills, if player pilots a frigate (and passable for destroyer).
- Coordinated maneuvers is single largest speed buff. Would be stupid not to take it for any kind of build.
- Crew training for +15CR on every ship. I'd only consider skipping for a ridiculously large fleet, far above 240 DP quota.

At this point you need to add only a 4th skill (either of 2 officers skills) to open path to BotB, which is once again as good as personal.
Tactical drills is also ok substitution for Wolfpack, if you don't care about frigates/destroyers.

Taking Leadership is optimal, whether you want to focus on fleet OR personal performance.

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Megas

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2023, 03:46:18 AM »

Off the top of my head these are all the ships i have succesfully killed 2+ ordos fleets(no safety overrides or omega weapons)  with my build while doing the vast majority of the work, this build only takes coordinated maneuvers, and if i happen to be focusing on a destroyer or frigate, then wolfpack tactics as well, with every other point going towards player based skills. Leadership skills are good, but they're definitely not mandatory if you're just great at the game. I'd even go as far as saying that if you're piloting some specific ships like odyssey, conquest and doom, its actually better to go full player than going leadership. The amount of control a player has over the fight when he uses everything available to him is insane, and thats with my personal rule of never using so. If you do factor in so its not even a contest, a player on basically any ship will be better than going leadership in that case.
Did you use any Leadership skills for the Odyssey/Conquest/Doom?  For the rest, it read as if you used some Leadership, which is not dumping it.

- Crew training for +15CR on every ship. I'd only consider skipping for a ridiculously large fleet, far above 240 DP quota.
But in unmodded game, player can never deploy more than 240 DP worth of combat ships on the field, and the best builds posted did not lose ships.
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TaLaR

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2023, 05:19:59 AM »

But in unmodded game, player can never deploy more than 240 DP worth of combat ships on the field, and the best builds posted did not lose ships.

Something like 11 Conquests fleet, just to have ridiculous chain-fighting capability for Nexelerin? Not the most practical solution even then, but not completely pointless.
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Buggie

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2023, 04:13:11 PM »

I may have misunderstood the discussion. I do agree that dumping leadership entirely is really dumb yeah, i take coordinated maneuvers in every game, but i thought we were talking about like not taking supdoctrice/best of the best was stupid, which is what i disagree with.
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Dadada

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2023, 01:47:42 AM »

I think the skills are more or less fine.

Nitpicks: The first green one "Tactical Drills" +5% weapon damage is really meh but the ground marine combat part is good. I personally wish the phase one "Phase Coil Tuning" had a higher DP limit but to balance it maybe a bit less of an effect. System expertise is brutal with certain skills (Doom/station mines and to Imo a lesser degree FMR and probably some other skills).

I wish we had 5 - 10 more skills to spice upp choice and build diversity, I crave more skills almost as much as more planetary conditions, goods and industries.
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Megas

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2023, 05:36:31 AM »

I personally wish the phase one "Phase Coil Tuning" had a higher DP limit but to balance it maybe a bit less of an effect.
That is built-in already.  Exceed the limit for a lesser effect.  Would not say no to a higher limit, though.
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Athenir

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2023, 11:40:12 AM »

from my perspective, i think there should be no hard limit, but a dispersion of effect after level 15.

taking inspiration from the mod Nexerelin, it could be something akind to a cycle between those:

+1 operative , +1 administration capacity, +1 administrator, +1 officer (or taskforce) and +1 skill point.

It would still give a little something at each level but would slow down the speed at which the player would fill all of it's skill trees.
 
The idea is to switch from a 1 skill per level to a 1 skill every 5 levels above level 15, making any additionnal skill point to look like an achievement while still giving stuff to do at each level. (mostly administrating your faction and resolving trouble with other factions)
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Dadada

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Re: Raise the level cap to 20
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2023, 12:34:45 PM »

Ohh, inspired by your post I think maybe an endgame quest with a choice (as a reward) to make would be nice, like: Either +1 Skill or +1 max admin or +1 max officer or +3 ships max fleet size or something. I kinda like the idea, but maybe the game should become a tad bit harder to balance the power creep...
E: Maybe there could be an option to change the choice later since we also can respec, mmmm.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2023, 12:48:24 PM by Dadada »
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