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Author Topic: I love Pegasus  (Read 10914 times)

Amoebka

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I love Pegasus
« on: May 09, 2023, 01:37:39 PM »

The ship is so much fun to pilot it's unreal.

It has extreme range and burst damage, and lets you instantly remove any threat from the battlefield, provided you have FMR charges to spare. Pegasus feels very "tactical" as a flagship. You don't need to have snap-fast reactions to maneuver or micro 7 weapon groups at once, piloting is pure decision making. You decide where on the battlefield you should be, which target is the priority, and how many reasources are you willing to allocate to neutralize it. And you need to think in advance too, since you are slow and dependent on FMR charges for damage. Engaging multiple smaller ships is a pain, but you have the rest of your fleet to take care of it. You only need to focus on big targets. It's like an Astral/Legion, but much more satisfying, because the strikes are delivered instantly, without having to wait for bombers.

Just did my first proper ordo farming with it, which I normally detest, and the experience was amazing. No longer do you have to dance around Radiants with avoid orders for 10 minutes to chip away at escorts. You get your flagship to it, and remove it from both this world and the next, so your sidekicks can finally get a fair fight while you recharge.

Everyone should try it out if you haven't already. In AI hands it's very mediocre, but human decision making turns it obscene.
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Grievous69

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2023, 01:42:05 PM »

Enjoy it while it lasts haha. I'm curious how you're finding it only mediocre in AI hands. It's an even better Gryphon, somehow.
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Amoebka

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2023, 01:47:28 PM »

AI doesn't fully appreciate the ability to press F 3 times in a row. It will shoot some missiles, and then let the target back away. Certainly nowhere as deadly as 2.5 Gryphons.
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Grievous69

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2023, 01:50:26 PM »

AI doesn't fully appreciate the ability to press F 3 times in a row. It will shoot some missiles, and then let the target back away. Certainly nowhere as deadly as 2.5 Gryphons.
Even with an aggressive officer?
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Amoebka

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2023, 01:55:05 PM »

Even then. AI will usually shoot, reload, shoot, and wait. Once it sees that the enemy is high flux or overloaded, it will try another reload and burst, but at that point it's usually already too late to get the kill. You need to know how many reloads it takes to guarantee a kill, and you need to do them all at once. AI doesn't have enough foresight for that. It also keeps switching targets constantly.

Another issue is that repeated FMR activations are VERY flux intensive, which tends to end rather tragic for a slow AI-controlled ship.
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Vanshilar

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2023, 07:44:59 PM »

Eh what Pegasus loadout have you (or anyone else) been using? I only got to experiment with it for a few minutes before leaving on a trip (and won't be able to play for a while until I get back) but the Executor felt better. I tried 2 Squall + 2 Hurricane + 5 HVD + 4 IR Autolance, but using Executor with 2 HIL instead of the 2 Hurricanes was able to kill stuff a lot faster under AI control. The Squalls + HVDs were really good for long-range anti-shield, while the HILs and IR Autolances were really good for anti-armor and anti-hull. I only tested really quick in the sim though and not full-on fleet vs fleet combat so maybe it does better in a fleet context.

If its main use is as a large player-controlled capital-killer, though, it's in for some stiff competition. The player has not only the Onslaught with Proximity Charge Launchers or the [REDACTED BROCCOLI] to choose from, but also the Invictus and the Executor. Who knows, maybe the Nova or the Retribution will make an appearance too, once they're figured out and/or adjusted.

I'm all for more interesting options for the player though, so if the Pegasus works out well as a player flagship, that'll be fun to play around with once I get a chance.
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Amoebka

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2023, 01:24:42 AM »

5 heavy needlers
4 hurricanes
3 grav beams
2 tac lasers
1 ion beam
0 craps given

Proximity Onslaught is much shorter range, although more versatile and cheaper to field. A very different playstyle. The closest thing to my build is flagship Astrals.
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CapnHector

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2023, 03:24:39 AM »

Which of the two - Executor or Pegasus - is better will be a very interesting debate and one I look forward to.

Both are clearly strong ships when correctly built. They delivered very similar results in the minimum test that should be expected of a S-modded capital ship with a good officer, taking out 2 Radiants (1x Strike and 1x Assault variant) cleanly under AI control in the sim. Out of these builds, the Pegasus has clearly more long-range firepower, but the Executor has an immense DPS advantage up close, and a maneuverability advantage (because I figured it should have an officer with Helmsmanship, since this ship is vulnerable to flanking).

I will need to build Ordo farming fleets with both and see which I like best. As is I think the Pegasus will still come out on top, because they will likely be able to cooperate better due to longer range.


Taking out 2x Radiant
[close]


Taking out 2x Radiant
[close]
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5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2023, 05:26:56 AM »

the minimum test that should be expected of a S-modded capital ship with a good officer, taking out 2 Radiants (1x Strike and 1x Assault variant) cleanly under AI control in the sim

Either I'm missing the joke or I must be playing some different game(again)
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CapnHector

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2023, 05:37:40 AM »

What? That is a test I routinely use when designing capitals in the sim. It is not conclusive but it is a start. A properly kitted Conquest can do it, but poorly built ones won't, likewise these Pegasus and Executor builds work.

Or do you mean it is too easy or too unrealistic?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 05:39:55 AM by CapnHector »
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Grievous69

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2023, 06:06:06 AM »

Veteran players generally look down on sim test showcases and arguments because yes, it is way too unrealistic. Radiant with no skills and Radiant with an Alpha core is a monumental difference, the ship doubles in power pretty much. You're also rarely going to have an honest 1v1 in a fleet battle. So basically these tests can heavily favour some ships/builds while not showing true power on another.
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CapnHector

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2023, 06:10:53 AM »

Correct, a good sim showing is not enough to conclude it is a good ship, and sim Radiants are significantly weaker; if your ship can fight two sim Radiants and win then it can probably go toe to toe with one alpha core Radiant. However, if you have a capital that can't even defeat sim Radiants, then it is likely a bad ship for its DP, hence sim testing is an initial step in building a decent capital. Then to optimize you take it out Ordo farming and see how the battles go, preferably with a mod that gives you damage output for individual ships, and adjust to optimize fleet cooperation.
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5 ships vs 5 Ordos: Executor · Invictus · Paragon · Astral · Legion · Onslaught · Odyssey | Video LibraryHiruma Kai's Challenge

Amoebka

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2023, 06:15:21 AM »

Executor
What the reasoning behind s-modding armored weapon mounts? Autopulse is limited by recharge rate, not fire rate. If you want more DPS, why leave the mounts empty? If you want specifically more kinetic DPS, why not use heavier medium kinetics?
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CapnHector

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2023, 06:37:12 AM »

Executor
What the reasoning behind s-modding armored weapon mounts? Autopulse is limited by recharge rate, not fire rate. If you want more DPS, why leave the mounts empty? If you want specifically more kinetic DPS, why not use heavier medium kinetics?

The reasoning is that the Executor is limited by its flux dissipation, and the Arbalest is a great weapon with the best flux efficiency of the non-PD kinetics, but has problems with recoil. So it seemed to me that I could solve two problems with one hullmod by installing AWM, while also increasing DPS for the other weapons (it should in fact also affect the Autopulse's burst, since it has a .1 second refire delay, and the minimum refire delay permitted by the game is .05).

As it is, for an Arbalest we get 183.7 base DPS for 137.5 flux per sec for 8 OP. Let's say we build in a Flux Distributor instead of AWM and put in Heavy Needlers. Then we are getting 250 base DPS for 200 flux per sec at a cost of 15 OP, and we have +200 flux dissipation per second. Replacing all of the Arbalests we end up with 330 more DPS but also -35 OP and +312.5 flux per second, so we won't be able to fire those continuously even with the Flux Distributor. In fact, using all of the extra flux from the flux dissipator, we can fire 3 Heavy Needlers continously, so let's say we instead build in a Flux Dissipator and use 2 Arbalests and 3 Heavy Needlers. Then (ignoring poorer accuracy for the Arbalests) we get +165.5 DPS for -21 OP.  The Heavy Autocannon on the other hand is just a bad deal at 1.00 flux per damage and also poor accuracy unless you put in AWM. Also, the Arbalest is in fact decent against armor due to 200 hit strength.

I could see putting in Railguns instead of Arbalests and not building in the AWM though. Then you could have a layout like 2x Heavy Needler in the Hybrid slots and 3x Railgun in the front slots. Then you would have 83.5 more kinetic DPS at a cost of -11 OP and +162.5 flux per second and could build in something else.

I don't know, just seemed like a good choice but it is definitely not optimized, I will need to try this out in a fleet setting. It might even end up being HVD + HIL eventually which I think Vanshilar was going for. However +100 range on APL seems nice when APL is great this version.

(edit - stated the APL refire delay incorrectly earlier)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2023, 06:48:37 AM by CapnHector »
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Lawrence Master-blaster

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Re: I love Pegasus
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2023, 06:41:09 AM »

What? That is a test I routinely use when designing capitals in the sim. It is not conclusive but it is a start. A properly kitted Conquest can do it, but poorly built ones won't

Guess I've been kitting my Conquests wrong then. Can you show me a Conquest fit that can do it?
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