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[Megas]

I tried stuffing my size 3 colony with cores and it did not to add anything Pathers on Hostile Activity.  That seems like legacy from previous releases.  If so, then the way to colonize the sector would be like before, never let alpha-run colonies grow past size 3 (which is what I would have tried in the last release if I had bothered).  On those small colonies sitting on huge +2/+3 deposits, use an item that boosts resources another +3 to have production close to a size 6 colony.

My plan for colonies this release:
* Pristine Nanoforge in Orbital Works (+quality, meet supply demand for Military Base/HC)
* Synchrotron (meet fuel demand for Military Base/HC)
* (Maybe) one or two other items.

Have no intention of using cores unless I wipe Hegemony off the map first, and only if Pathers do not interfere, which they seem not to if size stays at 3.

I probably would like to use the Hypershunt Tap, but it also requires other items that produce +3 commodities in other industries and maybe AI core to reduce demand in P&I.

I probably would like Hostile Activity more if it means no more pather cells at +7 interest on one planet provided Hostile Activity level is kept low.  I would have liked to use the Mining>Refinery>Orbital with forge chain, but the Pather cell that resulted made that option a no-go.  (I avoid whack-a-mole Pathers at all costs.)


P.S.
The idea of mass colonization of size 3 worlds was to get P&I income from dozens or a few hundred colonies after I blow up all the core worlds (which destroys all income from trade) because either my commander is a maniac who wants to conquer/destroy the sector, or he is sick of all the expedition spam (on his colonies or the incompetent two-faced core worlds) and wants to make it stop by killing everyone.

Ah! Honestly, I think part of this is what scale one expects player colonies to have. I don't see the game as a 4x and ultimately colonies will let you do a few specific things and you won't need many of them for that, and these point values are tuned with that in mind. More on the "a colony with an alpha admin and some cores is special" side of things, rather than "so I have these 4 credit printing machines stuffed to the gills with cores", if that makes sense.

Might want Pathers to count size 3 colonies to close that loophole.  On the other hand, counting size 3 worlds would make Tech Mining bad since Tech Mining itself adds up to +8 interest (on the biggest ruins).

[crvt]

I'm getting like 848 monthly points, which is about 2 luddic path attacks a month.
Ended up disabling free port everywhere to counteract -4 stability, and have to deal with some industries being disrupted.

It is 18 colonies all full of alpha cores, so that was about to be expected. The production still outscales accumulated disruptions; the colonies with 2 industries currently disrupted are about break-even and the rest are all business as usual.
Don't know how it'd feel growing colonies from scratch again, but it looks like once you're big enough you can still ignore the path & pirates.

[Elliott500]

Just wanted to add some feedback from a rather casual player. (Play every couple of years or so, never gotten too in depth with mechanics)

For me this is a bit of a disappointment and overall makes the gameplay somewhat inorganic - instead of being able to have an intuitive understanding of systems I've found myself having to look up solutions to problems that aren't making a whole lot of sense.

I decided to set up a colony at midgame after finding a good system to do so. Eventually the hostile activity ratcheted up due to me not having the fleet power to take out hostile stations - I didn't pay it much mind as I assumed it would be something I could divert my attention to down the line once my fleet power grew and crush with a bit of effort. Unfortunately this was not the case - after building up some cash and putting together a decent fleet (a massive investment while constantly being hit with negative income from a fledgling colony) I went and tackled the pirate stations and found myself extremely surprised that it had barely any impact on the event progress, only slowing future development instead of wiping some accumulated progress.

At this point I looked up a bit of info and went the route of building a patrol HQ and started exploring the sector for a cryo to boost it, hoping that it would prove my savior. After finally getting one imagine my surprise when instead of helping the situation it actively hinders it by giving me path interest. I was also going to go the route of aiming for an orbital con yard and nanoforge with similar aims but reading this thread I see the path will also lead to negative results. I also tried to create extra patrol stations only to find that they did absolutely nothing, again a decision that is not clearly signposted.

My next idea was to try manually hunting down pirate fleets, but the gains were just irrelevant- 1 or 2 points for fleet defeated meant I'd have to spend an entire day hunting fleets to have any impact at all, which just doesn't feel like satisfying gameplay. I get your reasoning with the fleet sizes Alex but it feels to me like you must need an endgame level fleet to deal any significant progress reduction, which doesn't solve my issue of starting a colony midgame and having it be a complete death spiral.

So yeah. I think it's a great step towards improving the colony/piracy experience but it needs to have steps make more sense and be more clearly signposted to retain organic gameplay where I don't have to look up guidance to have a clue how to get out of the spiral.

[Euphytose]

Totally agreed with the post above!

[Alex]

Spoiler

Just wanted to add some feedback from a rather casual player. (Play every couple of years or so, never gotten too in depth with mechanics)

For me this is a bit of a disappointment and overall makes the gameplay somewhat inorganic - instead of being able to have an intuitive understanding of systems I've found myself having to look up solutions to problems that aren't making a whole lot of sense.

I decided to set up a colony at midgame after finding a good system to do so. Eventually the hostile activity ratcheted up due to me not having the fleet power to take out hostile stations - I didn't pay it much mind as I assumed it would be something I could divert my attention to down the line once my fleet power grew and crush with a bit of effort. Unfortunately this was not the case - after building up some cash and putting together a decent fleet (a massive investment while constantly being hit with negative income from a fledgling colony) I went and tackled the pirate stations and found myself extremely surprised that it had barely any impact on the event progress, only slowing future development instead of wiping some accumulated progress.

At this point I looked up a bit of info and went the route of building a patrol HQ and started exploring the sector for a cryo to boost it, hoping that it would prove my savior. After finally getting one imagine my surprise when instead of helping the situation it actively hinders it by giving me path interest. I was also going to go the route of aiming for an orbital con yard and nanoforge with similar aims but reading this thread I see the path will also lead to negative results. I also tried to create extra patrol stations only to find that they did absolutely nothing, again a decision that is not clearly signposted.

My next idea was to try manually hunting down pirate fleets, but the gains were just irrelevant- 1 or 2 points for fleet defeated meant I'd have to spend an entire day hunting fleets to have any impact at all, which just doesn't feel like satisfying gameplay. I get your reasoning with the fleet sizes Alex but it feels to me like you must need an endgame level fleet to deal any significant progress reduction, which doesn't solve my issue of starting a colony midgame and having it be a complete death spiral.

So yeah. I think it's a great step towards improving the colony/piracy experience but it needs to have steps make more sense and be more clearly signposted to retain organic gameplay where I don't have to look up guidance to have a clue how to get out of the spiral.

[close]

Hi, and welcome to the forum! Just wanted to say thank you for your feedback; a lot of what you're saying really clicks and I really appreciate getting your perspective.

[Megas]

- For pirates, after completing the main story, talk to Kanta and give her: a million credits, a colony item (except corrupted nanoforge), a Radiant, a Nova, the Hamatsu, any large Omega weapon, 1000 volturnian lobsters, a contact of at least high importance... or 1 story point (with 100% bonus XP). Technically the story point option says that they'll contact you later for a "favor" for you to repay, but I've not had this happen and I'm not sure what triggers said favor. This grants Kanta's protection and removes the pirate hostile activity increment. It seems to last indefinitely.

Poking through the files, Kanta also accepts few blueprints, among them Hyperion and Doom.  I do not know if pirates will upgrade their fleet as done for selling blueprints on the black market.  (I would expect them to.)

Before I ended my last session with progress, I raided New Maxios and rolled up Hyperion blueprint.  I saved the game, went next door to Kanta, gave her...it the blueprint, and I received Kanta's protection.  Obviously, I will reload and keep my blueprint.  I will pay Kanta with something else if I want protection.

[BigBrainEnergy]

It would be a lot more intuitive if fleet size/quality affected event progress rather than just the type of military base.

[kenwth81]

- For pirates, after completing the main story, talk to Kanta and give her: a million credits, a colony item (except corrupted nanoforge), a Radiant, a Nova, the Hamatsu, any large Omega weapon, 1000 volturnian lobsters, a contact of at least high importance... or 1 story point (with 100% bonus XP). Technically the story point option says that they'll contact you later for a "favor" for you to repay, but I've not had this happen and I'm not sure what triggers said favor. This grants Kanta's protection and removes the pirate hostile activity increment. It seems to last indefinitely.

Poking through the files, Kanta also accepts few blueprints, among them Hyperion and Doom.  I do not know if pirates will upgrade their fleet as done for selling blueprints on the black market.  (I would expect them to.)

Before I ended my last session with progress, I raided New Maxios and rolled up Hyperion blueprint.  I saved the game, went next door to Kanta, gave her...it the blueprint, and I received Kanta's protection.  Obviously, I will reload and keep my blueprint.  I will pay Kanta with something else if I want protection.

Spoiler

Apparently the solution to the Colony Threat event is to pay protection money to the Pirates and Luddic path

[close]

[Deshara]

Spoiler

Just wanted to add some feedback from a rather casual player. (Play every couple of years or so, never gotten too in depth with mechanics)

For me this is a bit of a disappointment and overall makes the gameplay somewhat inorganic - instead of being able to have an intuitive understanding of systems I've found myself having to look up solutions to problems that aren't making a whole lot of sense.

I decided to set up a colony at midgame after finding a good system to do so. Eventually the hostile activity ratcheted up due to me not having the fleet power to take out hostile stations - I didn't pay it much mind as I assumed it would be something I could divert my attention to down the line once my fleet power grew and crush with a bit of effort. Unfortunately this was not the case - after building up some cash and putting together a decent fleet (a massive investment while constantly being hit with negative income from a fledgling colony) I went and tackled the pirate stations and found myself extremely surprised that it had barely any impact on the event progress, only slowing future development instead of wiping some accumulated progress.

At this point I looked up a bit of info and went the route of building a patrol HQ and started exploring the sector for a cryo to boost it, hoping that it would prove my savior. After finally getting one imagine my surprise when instead of helping the situation it actively hinders it by giving me path interest. I was also going to go the route of aiming for an orbital con yard and nanoforge with similar aims but reading this thread I see the path will also lead to negative results. I also tried to create extra patrol stations only to find that they did absolutely nothing, again a decision that is not clearly signposted.

My next idea was to try manually hunting down pirate fleets, but the gains were just irrelevant- 1 or 2 points for fleet defeated meant I'd have to spend an entire day hunting fleets to have any impact at all, which just doesn't feel like satisfying gameplay. I get your reasoning with the fleet sizes Alex but it feels to me like you must need an endgame level fleet to deal any significant progress reduction, which doesn't solve my issue of starting a colony midgame and having it be a complete death spiral.

So yeah. I think it's a great step towards improving the colony/piracy experience but it needs to have steps make more sense and be more clearly signposted to retain organic gameplay where I don't have to look up guidance to have a clue how to get out of the spiral.

[close]

Hi, and welcome to the forum! Just wanted to say thank you for your feedback; a lot of what you're saying really clicks and I really appreciate getting your perspective.

i think... the split here is that Alex is designing these with the understanding that the colony mechanic should introduce more oppertunities for combat, whereas some players are coming into it feeling like the colony is supposed to reduce the need for combat
im.... not sure what could be done about that. is that.. a common feeling? im suddenly recalling that a lot of players get annoyed by the big fights (investigation congos) that a colony brings, & also the small fights (pirates/path) that a colony brings. is this an instance where the fantasy of being a colony leader is that it gives the player a reprieve from the combat loop & gives them an oppertunity to engage in the boring non-combat parts of the game (the good kind of boring) as a break? but then you circle back around to people going "well why is it there if people aren't attacking it constantly". are players hoping that a colony will be a market that is always on their side, which inherently means it's without the hassle that a market not being on their side brings (being harassed)?

if those are the cases, what would be the solution? strip out the combat consequences of colonies & make it a relaxing, peaceful way for a midgame player to catapult themselves to the endgame?

[BaBosa]

Actually what if, instead of the system giving penalties if players don't fight, the system gives bonuses to players that do fight. So instead of these security protocols giving stability and assessability penalties, have that as the normal and instead give well-protected bonuses when the player kills ships and bases. This also makes sense as merchants going to new systems would expect pirates to arrive quickly because settling a planet isn't exactly low-key and pirates would notice as soon as merchant fleets do. Numbers would need to be adjusted so that ignoring this system only just gives enough to be worthwhile.

This could help a lot even though it's effectively the same system because it just feels better to be rewarded for doing something rather than punished for not doing something.

[Twista]

 Another casual player also chipping in on this.

 At the moment its a single meter for both pirates and pathers which is where the problems stem from.

 If you are a pirate, you are motivated by money. If a colony is just some farmers on a rock you can of course bully them for lolz but ain't much financial sense doing so. So I would suggest that pirates have its own meter that scales off the income the colony/system produces. Make more money - attract more pirates. Having valuable items, such as nanoforges or synchrotron cores adds to the meter, security measures (ground defenses, military bases) takes points from the meter. I would argue that colony stockpiles should be counted as well for the meter. Potentially items stored at the colony as well.

 Pathers should have their own meter that is working off the items and industries as it does already. Pather cells mechanic should be integrated into it. Additional fleet attacks by path should occur after accumulating x points.

 Oh, and being able to buy production slots for use should be a lot more widespread. If you want players to fight more there should be things to accommodate this. Either production slots to get the weapons/ships that I want or allow remote buying via brokers if a necessary item is available elsewhere. If colony mechanic is more penalizing and colony system choice is narrowed down even further, then I would argue that purchasing planet governorship may be a better option for the player to get production slots/cashflow. That is Nex only though.

[Megas]

i think... the split here is that Alex is designing these with the understanding that the colony mechanic should introduce more oppertunities for combat, whereas some players are coming into it feeling like the colony is supposed to reduce the need for combat
im.... not sure what could be done about that. is that.. a common feeling? im suddenly recalling that a lot of players get annoyed by the big fights (investigation congos) that a colony brings, & also the small fights (pirates/path) that a colony brings. is this an instance where the fantasy of being a colony leader is that it gives the player a reprieve from the combat loop & gives them an oppertunity to engage in the boring non-combat parts of the game (the good kind of boring) as a break? but then you circle back around to people going "well why is it there if people aren't attacking it constantly". are players hoping that a colony will be a market that is always on their side, which inherently means it's without the hassle that a market not being on their side brings (being harassed)?

if those are the cases, what would be the solution? strip out the combat consequences of colonies & make it a relaxing, peaceful way for a midgame player to catapult themselves to the endgame?

The problem is travel time (and cost of fuel and supplies for long distance travel) and possible number of places to defend, including NPC core worlds with insufficient defenses against pirates and pathers, or other tasks with a deadline.  Colony defense is a problem if there are too many screaming babies the player needs to silence or too many fires that need to be put out.  I do not want to be play babysitter or firefighter chained to colonies.  Also, there is no bonus or compensation for defending colonies, just preservation of the status quo, which I do not consider a reward.

If my colony or an NPC core world is in trouble, I need to drop whatever I am doing, rush (possibly long distance) to the site, and put out the fire.  One may be annoying but not too bad, but multiple overlapping at the same time leaves little time for the player to do what he wants, especially long distance travel for exploring or fulfilling quests that might also have a deadline.  It can be a real problem if whatever I was doing also had a deadline.  I do not like getting nagged at to fight without reward.  I want to choose when and where I want to fight, if I want to fight.  Not have it forced on me by events I cannot ignore.

This was a reason why I seriously considered total core kill to stop expedition spam and total sector colonization to get P&I income from every planet (with a size 3 colony) in the sector.  It is a reason why players stack colonies so they can eliminate the need for direct personal involvement of their own colony defense.

P.S.  Even a single event can be bad if the player needs to haul a huge war fleet over significant distance to fight several large raiding fleets, and player has not yet fully developed income generation to offset the costs of travel and combat.  It can be a lot of fuel and supplies burnt for no reward when income generation is low.

[Amoebka]

if those are the cases, what would be the solution? strip out the combat consequences of colonies & make it a relaxing, peaceful way for a midgame player to catapult themselves to the endgame?

If you really wanted, it could be both. Colonies could require less combat for defense, but still feed into combat by having late-game battles drop colony items and cores.
I feel like the current system, ironically enough, reduces my desire to fight big battles. Alpha core farming days are over, because you now can't use any of them without getting -50.

[PsychoThruster]

If I nuke the pirate queen will they back off? I just stumbled upon her station and am very tempted to bombard it into dust as vengeance for her raids against my dirt farmers.

[Megas]

if those are the cases, what would be the solution? strip out the combat consequences of colonies & make it a relaxing, peaceful way for a midgame player to catapult themselves to the endgame?

I feel like the current system, ironically enough, reduces my desire to fight big battles. Alpha core farming days are over, because you now can't use any of them without getting -50.

Why?  Because of Pathers?  They still ignore size 3 worlds for some reason.  Just do not use cores or other interest generators on the bigger size 4+ worlds.  As long as Pathers ignore size 3 worlds, I can still attempt full sector colonization if I feel like it, or at least use items on colonies that will stay at size 3 indefinitely.

However, it can be a problem if someone wants to support a tap and all the items needed for all resources on size 6 worlds.

If I nuke the pirate queen will they back off? I just stumbled upon her station and am very tempted to bombard it into dust as vengeance for her raids against my dirt farmers.

As long as Kanta has quests attached to her (Janus), her world cannot be destroyed or decivilized.  If wiping Kanta off the map is possible, I do not know if it will stop pirates (but I guess that will not work).