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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?  (Read 5853 times)

Grievous69

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2023, 05:55:03 AM »

We all understand that well enough. So much that sentiments exactly like those are being repeated in almost every post talking about patches and development.

The problem is, waiting a year and a half for bug fixes and QoL improvements is excruicating. I honestly don't care if we hit 1.0 in a year, or 8 years from now. But I do want some sort of endgame so that the game has a natural cycle.

It's hard to even get hyped these days. As seeing a new blost post or twitter tease may mean you won't even have the desire to play games at the point in life when it comes out.
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Embolism

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2023, 06:16:43 AM »

Yeah I don't care that much about reaching 1.0 (which is pretty arbitrary), the reason I get a feeling of "that's it?" when I see the patch notes is because while it is lengthy, a lot of it is balancing, fixes and new ships/weapons which... if we're being honest, is what most StarSector mods do and there's a lot more modders churning out a lot more of that kind of content.

I'm more interested in fundamental mechanical changes (and also story quests!), stuff that mods don't do. And I'm almost certainly not understanding the scale of work involved in making the game but... the only new mechanic in the next patch is the events system, and it seems a bit barebones.

I'm probably sounding ungrateful. Like I said I'm excited for the patch, but it also feels a bit anticlimatic after a year and a half.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2023, 06:19:38 AM by Embolism »
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David

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2023, 06:50:36 AM »

FWIW, and I am biased, but I think the patch notes rather undersell things. Some pretty big stuff (to me) gets like one line, or isn't really mentioned; in particular, we're trying not to talk much about new story/missions. Anyway, it won't surprise anyone if I said that Alex doesn't have the soul of a hype-man (but if someone manages to trap one in a blood-red ruby on a moonless midnight, let us know).

Nothing more I can add to that except work on the game. So I'll get back to that (uh, once the long weekend is over).
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Deshara

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2023, 08:00:03 AM »

for what its worth, i understand the wait & appreciate that you guys are willing to put that kind of discipline into your project. id prefer a DF to a Wolcen any day of my life
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Dri

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2023, 01:09:50 PM »

I joined these forums in 2012, so over a decade ago. I love the game and wouldn't still be posting here if I didn't. I want it to succeed, go viral and make you all lots of $$$ and bring a lot of fun to many people.

But nearly 1 and a half year for an update to a game that is still in development? There ain't no real way to sugarcoat it, that is simply an extreme amount of time between game updates. While it might be convenient for development to have such large gaps you gotta remember you have...players playing the game and there is nothing players love more than content updates. Huge gaps between updates starts to cause a lot of negativity as we all know.

Gotta find a better balance between development convenience and giving players content at a more reasonable pace. I'm not saying put some rigid deadline or time limit on things, but defs try and shoot for a time and give an honest try to hit it. 9 months to a year seems reasonable to me at least.

Even if this patch has a massive pile of REDACTED stuff not mentioned in the notes, I still say a year and a half is too long.
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Sly

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2023, 03:13:36 PM »

I've been around since the long, far off heydays when the game was a single system with a handful of ships. It has been a pleasant surprise in that era when early access was starting to roll out that the project just wasn't dropped entirely. I see a lot of veterans from those days on the forums when I skim through every couple weeks or so. Tells a story, having a level-headed core following for so long.

I don't post a lot. I like Starsector and I care about the direction the game goes in, but it's not the only thing I do nor is it my only passion. I like to check the front page every day for a few seconds to see if any new blog posts came in, scan the forum for popular threads, etc. It's usually no more than a literal minute. I like to post when I sense the next patch is close to release, and shortly afterwards.

Bored and frustrated? Fill your time with something worthwhile. Something else. Let your interest wax and wane.

Or don't, and be bored and frustrated.
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Dri

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2023, 08:24:51 PM »

The whole "go play something else" is excuse #1 people make when threads like this pop up—do you really think we don't do that? Are you for real? That's an even more laughable excuse when you consider how long it's been since the last big patch.

I personally played a bit when the last patch came out and then turned to other interests, but now after over a year of doing other things I've gotten that Starsector urge again. Imagine my shock and displeasure when I started checking in on the game a couple months ago to find ZERO updates. Fast forward some more and now I'm getting peeved.

I don't make threads anymore about the wait time, but you can bet when they do pop up I'm going to stand with the other guys who are getting annoyed. Gotta have some peeps playing devil's advocate or these forums will devolve into a self-destructive echo chamber, and that ain't gonna do Alex and David no favors. A lil bit of civil agitation keeps the blood flowing and heads screwed on straight.
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Fenrir

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2023, 08:44:52 PM »

(Okay, keeping in mind that I respect general griping about waiting and the need to do it. But I think there's also an interesting question hidden in here.)I suppose another alternative is to declare 1.0 with a possibly rushed 'technically hit all the feature bullet-points', then update post-launch. I struggle to remember a game where this worked out well rather than fizzled, though maybe Brigador kinda did it and managed to turn a rough start around with a viral social media post?
Stellaris fits both conditions, while No Man's sky and Cyberpunk2077 hits the later.
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joyjumper

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2023, 12:20:32 AM »

Also from someone who bought the game when it was still Starfarer and wish the best for the games success: The heightened frequency of the earlier patches always were fun to experience as gameplay mechanic contents - that is the playing of those versions wouldn't sully the experience that I'd expect from the game at it's full release. Helping testing combat/skill trees/player decision making doesn't create spoiler warnings for myself to play on the next update. However when the content that would be important to 1.0 is the story itself, I greatly appreciate the release being made when the story is ready to be experienced. Even from the original release of some story I was trying not to spoil too much for what was still to come. At this point I'm happy patiently waiting for what the game was meant to be experienced as, and greatly appreciate that the creativity of a story is being made and implemented in the game. Quality creativity usually takes rewrites, so honestly it's a good sign that the lines in the update are focused. As much as I have the Starsector itch, I'd rather it be primed to experience the story.
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Cegorach

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2023, 03:02:19 AM »

In the long run we're all dead.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2023, 04:11:23 AM »

In the long run we're all dead.
People die when killed
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basileus

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2023, 09:25:25 AM »

(Okay, keeping in mind that I respect general griping about waiting and the need to do it. But I think there's also an interesting question hidden in here.)I suppose another alternative is to declare 1.0 with a possibly rushed 'technically hit all the feature bullet-points', then update post-launch. I struggle to remember a game where this worked out well rather than fizzled, though maybe Brigador kinda did it and managed to turn a rough start around with a viral social media post?
Stellaris fits both conditions, while No Man's sky and Cyberpunk2077 hits the later.

I believe this worked out for Egosoft with X: Rebirth.  I never played it, but most people seemed to agree that it was a hot mess on release and ended up being a fun game.  This is also typically been true to a lesser extent with Egosoft in general.  (It was also my experience with Paradox games before I got turned off by their DLC spam.)  The studio head for Egosoft is often asked about financials when giving interviews.  He always says something to the effect of, while there could always be more, each game comfortably pays for the development of the next game.

Egosoft might be a better comparison than big studios that have diversified into publishing, like Paradox and CDProjectRed.

They try to get to their own perfect version of a sandbox space game over this sort of time scale, but they do it incrementally by releasing a small number of games with a small number of expansions each.  With the exception of X Rebirth which was part of the initial expectations problem on release, they are really all incremental improvements of the same original X game.  X4 is called Foundations because they view it as finally being the proper Foundations to reach their original visions from decades ago.
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Sharp

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2023, 09:31:36 AM »

I feel with the incredible mod support and even more incredible modders that it doesn't matter if the game reaches a 1.0 before you die or not.

It's an amazing game, updates may be slow but if you want fresh content there are loads of mods to completely change it. Starsector is well worth the money paid for it, I'm sure many of us have sunk thousands of hours into it, even if the game cost $100 it would still be a bargain for the entertainment it has provided. I've paid more for many games I've played way less.

Hitting 1.0 is a nice milestone but I'm not sure if it really changes all that much fundamentally.
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Burvjradzite

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2023, 10:55:47 AM »

I like to have major updates with new balance every year and do a playthrough each patch, and watching the game grow is fun also. They make me say that.

Ryan390

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Re: I'm already 54, will I see the game released before I die?
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2023, 01:23:36 AM »

I've been mentioning this development problem years back, particularly in needing some sort of endgame of story wrap-up.
Instead the features being focused on where 'colouring in asteroids' - superficial glossing of an already pretty decent, robust product.

The Ziggurat update was by far the most interesting, on point and relevant update I think I can remember in this game. Since then it's been 'colouring in asteroids' or redoing a system or 're balancing'.

People are finally now starting to see what I saw and want more substance, it's not a matter of needing it now, we should of had that years ago while the game was already stable.

(IMO) - The issues and frustrations aren't necessarily around speed of development, it's around the direction.
I think there's too much obsession around trying to get this product 'perfect' - when in reality it just needs the core story implementing and story features added. 

-------------
The game originally had one single system, with a bunch of ships you could fight and that's about it. It was rough around the edges.
No-one complained about that did they? We all loved it. 


We've been polishing, and polishing, and polishing, and refining now from what seems to have been a length of time that is becoming a real frustration.

I personally don't mind some of the officer skill limitations, I didn't mind the rough edgy, sometimes limited colony management, I don't mind the factions don't have a huge lore backstory and tons of extra stuff. I don't mind that there 'might' be missing gaps between ship classes or some factions have more stronger ships than others. That's life.

What does bother me is since the really good Ziggurat update, we've had nothing substantial when clearly you are capable of adding and expanding on that story content.

Even if you introduced (lets say one of the inactive gates opening up) in one single sector, with new alien ships pouring out. (simple and effective update) - Which would keep people tiding over and create something interesting.

With that being a new feature, you wouldn't be blocked by legacy code (hopefully) or a sticky implementation. You could give small features that add a lot of value like that, which keep paying off for the player. Until the next big story feature that gets developed that expands on it.

So the next update could be more inactive gates opening up, with a couple new alien class ship types emerging. Next update could be Factions have a meeting to discuss steps to tackle the problem. Next update could be the research station gets involved and the player is sent in through one of the gates (to a single, small isolated sector with some alien ships in)

Fairly good, stand alone updates that can come out in quick fashion, giving some breathing life back into the game and the community, while not trudging through the old codebase, also aligning with the longer term story objectives.

Bit of a different approach isn't it, rather than 'colouring in asteroids'
« Last Edit: April 12, 2023, 01:25:18 AM by Ryan390 »
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