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[Brainwright]

Hull Restoration is a powerful skill.  That's not a problem, but the way it is powerful is a bit... boring.

It largely eliminates d-mods from your fleet.  In fact, the random selection of d-mods to repair leaves no real way to take advantage of the d-mods that remain.

Because d-mods DO offer a significant advantage to prolonged combat.  The reduction to recovery costs means you don't have to win every fight, and it flatly reduces the costs of spending combat readiness.

So to that end, I want a Hull Restoration that lets you still have d-mods in your fleet.  I want to change Hull Restoration to allow you to swap d-mods between similar ships, supposedly just swapping out major systems between ships.

It would have to have a cost, of course.  I would give a skill that lets fleets swap d-mods between ships.  There would be requirements, you can only use the skill if you are in a stable orbit, and it costs a certain amount of bonus XP, because using SP is a little too precious.

In this way, you get a way to manipulate d-mods in any way you choose, rather than eliminate them entirely.  You can still eliminate them, though, either through using the restore command at extreme cost or salvaging ships to transfer d-mods from the ships you like to the ones you don't.

I like that a bit better.

[Grievous69]

Even it being powerful varies a lot on playstyle and experience. But this is why I think it has a solid place. It enable crazy fleets where your ships often end up exploding, or maybe just being a comfort QoL skill for someone who just wants to play with pristine ships without grinding credits or getting lucky bar missions.

[Megas]

Hull Restoration power is mostly campaign side, which is irrelevant for direct combat.  On the combat side, it is no stronger than Crew Training for military ships, and only after the player spends story points.  (Though Hull Restoration helps civilians, which Crew Training does not boost.)  It does not help that there are only two combat skills on the way to a capstone (although I think Ordnance Expert is powerful enough to be worth two points, it is after tier 2 that Industry gets underwhelming).

If Hull Restoration needs a change, it, along with all of the tier 3 industry skills, could all be tier 1.  Leave high-tier stuff to skills that improve direct combat performance (whether personal or fleetwide) only.

Hull Restoration could also give a discount to "Restore" while docked, if there are too many d-mods to wait for Hull Restoration to fix.

Even it being powerful varies a lot on playstyle and experience. But this is why I think it has a solid place. It enable crazy fleets where your ships often end up exploding, or maybe just being a comfort QoL skill for someone who just wants to play with pristine ships without grinding credits or getting lucky bar missions.

To a point.  If there are dozens and dozens of d-mods in a fleet and new ships in storage (recovered or low quality production), it will take years to fix them all.  Eventually, I build new or restore smaller ships and leave Hull Restoration to bigger ships, especially capitals because of too many d-mods.

Hull Restoration is convenient for ships player cannot buy or build, namely automated ships and Ziggurat.

Another thing:  If many ships are constantly exploding after combat, not only at least one of your ships will very likely get d-mods, but player will also lose a lot of crew, and CR (even with Field Repairs), and player will need to cut his expedition short to get more crew and supplies after about two or three meatgrinder fights.  The power builds that reliably win flawlessly and take no casualties are simply better.

Keep in mind that not only ships in your fleet will want d-mod removal, but also all of the enemy ships that are recovered.  Of course, with Hull Restoration, recovering new ships directly from the enemy can be a primary way of getting new ships before endgame.

[FooF]

I don't think Hull Restoration needs a fundamental change.

I respec into Hull Restoration if I find a Capital I like but needs restoring. Zigg especially since it's insanely expensive to restore. Outside of that, I typically don't use it. It can literally save millions of credits though. The cardinal sin of Hull Restoration, though, is that you can AFK with it and it will do its magic. I would prefer if it was something a little more active.

Here's a thought:

- Automatically removes 1 D-mod when recovering a ship
- 10% chance (per ship) to remove a D-mod after a "major" battle (~the same DP or greater than your fleet)
- Reduces Restore costs by 25%

[Megas]

For me, the biggest problem of Hull Restoration is low combat power on itself and no combat power on the previous skill to access it (after grabbing both Ordnance Expert and Polarized Armor).  I guess Hull Restoration's lack of combat power would be easier to stomach if there was a tier 3 Industry skill that was powerful in combat instead of eating less or keeping up with hired administrators.

I don't think Hull Restoration needs a fundamental change.

I respec into Hull Restoration if I find a Capital I like but needs restoring. Zigg especially since it's insanely expensive to restore. Outside of that, I typically don't use it. It can literally save millions of credits though. The cardinal sin of Hull Restoration, though, is that you can AFK with it and it will do its magic. I would prefer if it was something a little more active.

Here's a thought:

- Automatically removes 1 D-mod when recovering a ship
- 10% chance (per ship) to remove a D-mod after a "major" battle (~the same DP or greater than your fleet)
- Reduces Restore costs by 25%

-25% restore discount is not (good) enough if it is still more expensive than buying a pristine ship from the black market.

If waiting a month to remove a d-mod is not good, then Restoring a ship should be much cheaper than buying a new pristine ship, if d-mod removal is removed.  Part of the point of using Hull Restoration is removing d-mods for free when d-mod prevention checks fail.

Actually, removing automatic d-mod removal would make it play nice with the other capstone Derelict Operations.

Cost of restoring Ziggurat is close to two million.

[BigBrainEnergy]

I'd like to see hull restoration give 10% cr per s-mod. Then hull restoration + (crew training or combat endurance) would hit 100% CR, while hull restoration + BOTB would hit 100% without needing either of those other skills.

The "passive income" problem honestly sounds way overstated. New ships restore quickly, but after that initial phase they only have a chance to remove d-mods once per month. Sure, you could afk but you'd be better off grinding your way to a decent colony and then afk to get money. The supplies you burn waiting might be worth more than the cost of the d-mods removed.

[Megas]

The "passive income" problem honestly sounds way overstated. New ships restore quickly, but after that initial phase they only have a chance to remove d-mods once per month. Sure, you could afk but you'd be better off grinding your way to a decent colony and then afk to get money. The supplies you burn waiting might be worth more than the cost of the d-mods removed.

New ships with one d-mod usually restore quickly.  Those with two or more get their one removed, then they wait like everyone else.  While I have Hull Restoration, I always recover ships with only one d-mod, but those with more, I only recover if it is an exotic ship I cannot get any other way, or if it is my first of its type (like my first Onslaught).  Otherwise, I scuttle it.

The one d-mod per month has always proc'ed for me despite the text saying otherwise.  The annoyance is when player has more than a few d-mods, and when they finally go away, the player finds new ships he wants with d-mods (often from the enemy), and they need to be removed too.

I'd like to see hull restoration give 10% cr per s-mod. Then hull restoration + (crew training or combat endurance) would hit 100% CR, while hull restoration + BOTB would hit 100% without needing either of those other skills.

That would be nice.  It would also give more max CR to alpha Radiant, who gets only 45% max CR with Combat Endurance and Hull Restoration with two s-mods.  Or 50% with Combat Endurance and Crew Training.

It might make Hull Restoration good enough as a capstone (or at least higher than tier 1), but there is still a lame pick between that and tier 2 Industry.  Maybe give Hull Restoration a minor PPT bonus per s-mod on top of that too.

[Draz]

Seems like a problem for lots of people is that they want to keep some d-mods. Perhaps if you have the hull-restoration skill you can click on d-mods in the refit menu to exempt them from removal. I think if the text of the skill explained it and a little lock icon appeared on the d-mod after clicking then that would be clear enough?

I don't think hull-restoration should become a skill that's far down the tree because it leads the player to a fun style of gameplay (salvaging wrecked ships and piracy).

[Megas]

I like Hull Restoration because I reload the game much less than without it whenever my ships fall in combat.  However, Industry does not have enough combat power.

For future games, I am seriously contemplating dumping high Industry and maybe high Technology for Leadership, just to get the power Leadership skills, even if it means I may reload games much more like in older releases.

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

Some wild ideas in this thread.

The only real use for Hull Restoration is to combine it with Best of the Best for +15% CR. D-mod removal is irrelevant because to remove D-mods you only need money and money is simply not a factor in the current version of the game because you can print it infinitely on the Black Market. "Almost always" being able to recover ships is also largely irrelevant because all your ships should already be "almost always" recoverable thanks to officers and/or S-mods(and Reinforced Bulkheads in case of armor tanked ships) And even if they're not, you should definitely not lose ships every battle so you can always just SP them back if something goes very wrong.

I can't even imagine a campaign where you fly around relying on Hull Restoration to slowly remove D-mods from all your ships. Let's say you have 20 ships, each has 2 D-mods... you're going to wait for 40 months? Over three in-game years?

That said I don't like the idea of buffing the CR bonus on Hull Restoration either, as it further detracts from the "design" of the skill. You already only take it for the CR bonus, well now it gets even bigger CR bonus, where's the "hull restoration" part?

Here's a random idea: remove CR bonus from Hull Restoration but make it so that it makes all hullmods on the ship give S-mod bonuses, whether they're S-modded or not. It would fit the idea of the skill, it wouldn't need another skill from a different tree to work, and could potentially be very strong - but it is a capstone in arguably most usless skill tree in the game. This would also remove the "risk" of getting more than 100% CR which is currently possible in the game but does nothing.

[Princess_of_Evil]

Hull Restoration is a perfect capstone skill, that way. It forces you to play the way it wants you to, but gives you powerful bonuses for that.
It doesn't need any changes. If you don't want it to remove your D-mods, then pick the other capstone.

What you're really asking for is for a way to remove specific D-mods from your ships instead of all of them, which is valid and would be nice, but not really related to this skill.

[Serenitis]

Another potential way to approach this would be remove the automatic randomised removal of d-mods, as above.
And replace it with the ability to restore ships anywhere, no docking required.
This would have to be specifically initiated by the player, so it removes the afk issue. It also makes the use of this ability entirely optional.

The way I imagine this working is that taking this skill would unlock the restore button in the ship loadout when undocked. (Could also/instead have an additional icon on the fleet display, but that might be too much clutter.)
If a ship is restored 'in the field' it will have it's d-mods removed 1 at a time over a set period, with larger ships taking longer to fix.
A d-mod on a frigate might take a few days to fix, while the same mod on a capital might take a month.
Mods to be removed are picked randomly, with the single caveat that 'non-random' d-mods are always removed last. (aka Ill Advised + the Sindrian love package a good ship name tbh).

This doesn't require money, but it does require time. (Which is just money indirectly via supplies really.)
Restoring while docked always costs money, but is always instant. And overrides any in-progress restoration projects for that ship, since it's just been completely overhauled in a dock.
Restoring multiple ships simultaneously reduces the speed of repairs by 20% for each additional ship past the first.

If you wanted to, you could also hook this into the intel system and have your own crew generate little fetch quests for various materials etc when restoring ships.
While potentially fun and flavourful, this could also be annoying.

If you really wanted to, you could tie this ability to loot - specifically nanoforges.
Using a nanoforge to restore a ship burns it out completely after a single use as they are not intended to operate in thier packed up state, and have to be jury-rigged in order to do so.
A corrupted forge cuts repair times for the single ship it's used on by 50%.
A pristine forge can restore a ship instantly.
This would require the player to decide where to use thier resources, if they decide to use them at all. And also gives a potiential use for the dozens of corrupted forges they are likley to acquire during the game.

[BaBosa]

What the Hull Restoration skill is missing is hull restoring effects. As in hull repair and CR recovery bonuses. It should do something like half the supplies consumed for repairing and CR recovery and quadruple the CR recovered each day.
I would love to play a fleet that can continuously fight battle after battle, repairing between fights and fixing up the odd ship that is destroyed. As a capstone it should have a noticeable effect on the core aspect of the game which is combat and rapid repairs can lead to a more reckless play style as you can quickly recover from mistakes.

On a bit of topic tangent. It’d be cool if derelict contingent made it so ships have a minimum of 10% CR and armour/hull per dmod after a battle with the reasoning being that the damage is just treated as part of the ship like a scar. This way you could also fight battle after battle as every ship with 5 dmods gets just enough hull, armour and CR to immediately jump into another fight.

[BaBosa]

Looking at the exact skill effects of hull restoration again and it pushes players towards a perfect fleet play style where every ship is pristine and at its best.
The problem is that its effects are mostly when you recover a ship or when a ship is destroyed. But once you have your perfect fleet you don’t often recover any more ships and a perfect fleet shouldn’t lose many ships. Plus these effects can be mostly replicated with money, which means that the little that a set up pristine fleet needs can be covered with paid restoration.

So there’s a disconnect between the needs of the play style that the skill pushes players towards and what the skill actually gives us.

So while dmod reduction and removal is an important part, it shouldn’t be the main part. It should be reduced to like one or two effects. Like almost all ships can be recovered and with 75% smaller chance of dmods plus like a pay supplies to repair dmods over time ability.
It needs more effects that improve the ships. The 5% max CR per smod is a really good start so maybe a bonus to hull, armour and capacity for ships that start a fight with above 70% CR. That adds to the ship preservation and perfect ship feeling.
The ability to remove and refund smods would also be really cool. If the dmod removal system works by the player selecting what gets removed then that could also remove smods. That lets the player experiment and adapt to get the perfect fleet for the faction they’re facing. Optimising a fleet is a very industry themed way to improve combat power.
Add in much faster repairs (that multiple with field repairs) and I think the skill would support its natural play style better.

[Megas]

The only real use for Hull Restoration is to combine it with Best of the Best for +15% CR.

That assumes getting Leadership capstone.  For me, that is not an option if I want to pilot my flagship and take Hull Restoration.  Got to have Tech 2 for Gunnery Implants and Combat 5 for various skills.  If I want to leave flagship on autopilot and let the game take full control of my fleet, then yes, maybe getting BotB would be an option.  Piloting unskilled flagship is lame; I do not want to be the sidekick (in skill power) of my fleet.

If I want Hull Restoration, +10% max CR is all I expect to get from Hull Restoration; and getting that means giving up high Leadership (after taking Combat 5/Tech 2+/Industry 5).

That aside, I agree with the point once player can win flawlessly.  At that point, player does not lose ships in battle, and probably is not interested in new ships.

What the Hull Restoration skill is missing is hull restoring effects. As in hull repair and CR recovery bonuses. It should do something like half the supplies consumed for repairing and CR recovery and quadruple the CR recovered each day.
I would love to play a fleet that can continuously fight battle after battle, repairing between fights and fixing up the odd ship that is destroyed. As a capstone it should have a noticeable effect on the core aspect of the game which is combat and rapid repairs can lead to a more reckless play style as you can quickly recover from mistakes.

It sort of does that already (when combined with Field Repairs), except it is still inferior to perfect play that does not need rapid recovery (because they did not lose ships in the first place).  Also, crew still die, and you cannot chain battle when player needs to return to a world to get more crew after about three fights that involve partial fleet wipe.

Hull Restoration is a perfect capstone skill, that way. It forces you to play the way it wants you to, but gives you powerful bonuses for that.
It doesn't need any changes. If you don't want it to remove your D-mods, then pick the other capstone.

It is perfect... as a tier 1 non-combat/Crew Training alternative skill.  As it is, it is too weak to be a capstone, especially since all of the tier 3 Industry skills are campaign only skills too, unlike those in Technology.  With Hull Restoration, player gets a single tier 1 Leadership equivalent skill (after story point investment) for two skill points, one for Hull Restoration and one more for the tier 1 or 3 non-combat filler skill.  (Hull Restoration needs four Industry skills as prerequisites, but only two of them are combat, although with how powerful Ordnance Expert is, maybe both tier 2 can count for three.)

The bonuses are powerful... for campaign side only.  A skill that has campaign bonuses only and no combat power might as well be no skill at all.  Such skills should be prerequisites for more powerful combat skills only.  Gunnery Implants and Ordnance Expert are good examples of powerful combat skills that are stronger than typical tier 1 Combat skills and getting a non-combat skill to unlock such powerful combat skills seems justified.  Unfortunately, Hull Restoration is no stronger than Crew Training, a tier 1 skill.

Whenever people show off their endgame fleets, Industry is always dumped, either no Industry at all, or just enough for tier 2.  Meanwhile, BotB (which needs Leadership 5) is almost universal in those fleets, with few exceptions.