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[itBeABruhMoment]

There's few reasons to mount an energy weapon on a hybrid mount over a ballistic weapon. Energy weapons generally cost more op, have less range, and are less flux efficient than ballistic weapons. The only thing they really have over ballistics is emp damage. For this reason I'm suggesting that energy weapons receive some sort of buff when mounted on hybrid mounts. Perhaps there could be a 2, 4, 8 op discount for small, medium, and large energies put in hybrid mounts to compensate for their generally worse stats and higher op cost. Alternatively, maybe energy weapons could receive a 300, 200, 100 base range buff and be compatible with ballistic rangefinder buffs so they can match the range of ballistic weapons.

[Shinr]

I'm not an expert on the math behind weapons and combat, but I don't see how such a semi-blanket buff to energy weapons via Hybrid mounts would not lead to overpowered edge cases in a best case scenario.

Besides, what would be the justification for Hybrids buffing energy weapons, anyway? Why not Synergy and Universal for that matter? Why Composite would not do anything for either Ballistics or Missiles? It would be a too big of a special case/exception, IMO.

[Princess of Evil]

Besides, what would be the justification for Hybrids buffing energy weapons, anyway? Why not Synergy and Universal for that matter? Why Composite would not do anything for either Ballistics or Missiles? It would be a too big of a special case/exception, IMO.

I agree, honestly. There should be some blanket buffing for stuffing a X type into a mount that can also take Y.
Generally, missiles > ballistics > energy, though i'm not sure what a buff could even be to other weaponry being stuffed into missile accepting slots. Missiles are just too good.
Ballistics could use Composite's better-quality ammo autoforges to increase firerate or damage.
Energy could use Synergy's sheer amount of extra ammo storage space to drain extra flux to increase flux efficiency or give more flux storage per weapon OP.
Universal probably just gives either of the buffs to weapons. They're supposed to bring weapons to level comparable to missiles.

[Shinr]

I agree, honestly. There should be some blanket buffing for stuffing a X type into a mount that can also take Y.

I disagree, actually, for the same reasons I stated above.

Also, I imagine that just making a mount that is able to take 2 or 3 weapons types is already an engineering nightmare, making it somehow buff different weapons systems based on specific mount type would get you thrown out of the Chief Engineer's office for even suggesting it, unless they are Pirates, Pathers, Diktat or a TT with a very big budget, and only the last one could do it without extreme trade-offs, probably.

Would make for some interesting built-in hullmods for specific ships, thought. The Iron Shell mod does something similar with a few of its XIV ships.

[smithney]

The original sin of most Energy weapons is that they are usually generalist weapons designed to be used by ships with superior statistical profiles. Which means they can't get too strong on their own lest they make hi-tech overperform. I see a potential for Hybrid slot rivalry in cases where a support weapon would be appreciated. I'll probably make a full rundown if I find the time for it.

[FooF]

Even if a Pulse Laser was only 6 OP in a hybrid slot, I don’t think that would influence my choice. The problem is that the pulse laser has a range band that doesn’t match with most things and costs 300 flux/sec. I get the suggestion but buffing energies to be competitive with ballistics would take a lot and it doesn’t make sense to me why it would only be in the case of hybrid mounts.

[SafariJohn]

Having hybrid slots is already a buff for the ship they are on because they make the ship more flexible. Need general firepower? Energy has you covered. Anti-shield? Several ballistic options at each size. Anti-armor? Energy provides EMP options while ballistic offers HE options.

Trying to buff energy weapons to directly compete with ballistic weapons in hybrid slots is the kind of thinking that should instead be applied to hybrid weapons, which do have to directly compete with ballistic weapons while not overshadowing energy weapons. That's why Ballistic Rangefinder gives an extra buff to hybrids.

[itBeABruhMoment]

Think its about time I gave some general responses. If hybrid mounts actually are going to buff energy weapons there should be similar mechanics for universal and synergy mounts. Also I'm reiterating that most energy weapons are just statistically worse at dealing damage than ballistic weapons. Their only real use case is emp, and if you're also running a range based build the only choice is pretty much the ion beam.

[Megas]

Having hybrid slots is already a buff for the ship they are on because they make the ship more flexible. Need general firepower? Energy has you covered. Anti-shield? Several ballistic options at each size. Anti-armor? Energy provides EMP options while ballistic offers HE options.

In older releases, yes.  Now, occasionally, hybrid slot meant I could not buff that slot with Ballistic Rangefinder.  Next release, ships with hybrid but no ballistics cannot use Ballistic Rangefinder.

[Mr_8000]

In older releases, yes.  Now, occasionally, hybrid slot meant I could not buff that slot with Ballistic Rangefinder.  Next release, ships with hybrid but no ballistics cannot use Ballistic Rangefinder.

This is something I run into too often for comfort, especially when it comes to mod ships. I distinctly remember multiple times when I thought ballistic rangefinder might make sense here only to realize all the slots are hybrid, leaving me wishing they were pure ballistic. Almost makes hybrid feel like a downgrade.

[smithney]

Yeah but we can't really blame Alex for not taking into account modded content, can we? Especially since dual and universal slots are so ingrained in individual hull designs, they are much more of an outlier than a rule.

I think if Alex starts adding more Energy options that bring value Ballistic weapons can't, they might become competetive. I was looking through vanilla hulls which sport Hybrid slots and besides small Hybrids meant specifically for PD, most indeed make sense to be fitted with a supportive side-weapon.

[Megas]

This is something I run into too often for comfort, especially when it comes to mod ships. I distinctly remember multiple times when I thought ballistic rangefinder might make sense here only to realize all the slots are hybrid, leaving me wishing they were pure ballistic. Almost makes hybrid feel like a downgrade.

At least with small mounts, ePD+IPDAI is an option (and PD weapons do not work with Ballistic Rangefinder), although next release will require s-mod IPDAI for that.  The one ship I considered using Ballistic Rangefinder or ePD+IPDAI on ballistics on is Champion, but that does not work.  The medium mounts are hybrid, and small weapons that are not hybrid do not fit.

[Wyvern]

I don't think any balance changes for hybrid mounts should be done globally.

Per-ship balance changes, though? I'd like to see the Hammerhead, in particular, have a bit more reason to consider energy weaponry. Then again, I'd also like to see the Hammerhead have all four small mounts able to fire forwards again, even if that came with swapping the rear turrets to pure energy - used to be you could drop LRPD in the rear turrets and have that be the ship's PD done with. Now? I basically always end up leaving the rear turrets empty and using converted hangar to cover PD, which is... nice to have as an option, but annoying to have as the default build.

I'd also like to note that, even if you're just looking at raw damage profile, there's at least one energy weapon at each size that ballistics just doesn't have a direct competitor for. For small slots, the antimatter blaster is unmatched in both armor penetration and burst damage. For medium slots, the heavy blaster is unmatched at just raw DPS regardless of target (if you can afford to fire the thing at all). And for large slots, none of the ballistic HE weaponry can compete with a Tachyon Lance on any metric other than ordnance point cost*.

* Edit: or, arguably, accuracy against frigates while mounted in a turret and left under AI control - for the player, the tachyon lance is far more accurate, but the AI's decoupling of ship maneuvering from weapons-fire gives it a bad habit of forcing the tachyon lance off-target.

[itBeABruhMoment]

I'd also like to note that, even if you're just looking at raw damage profile, there's at least one energy weapon at each size that ballistics just doesn't have a direct competitor for. For small slots, the antimatter blaster is unmatched in both armor penetration and burst damage. For medium slots, the heavy blaster is unmatched at just raw DPS regardless of target (if you can afford to fire the thing at all). And for large slots, none of the ballistic HE weaponry can compete with a Tachyon Lance on any metric other than ordnance point cost*.

The flux drain of the heavy blaster makes it unusable for most ships, having 500 extra flux dissipation lying around is an unrealistic scenario. The tachyon lance is good but it's dps vs armor is still comparable to the hellbore for something that has almost double the flux per second. The am blaster does have utility that no ballistics really provide but its still a 9 op weapon.

[Princess of Evil]

The tachyon lance is good but it's dps vs armor is still comparable to the hellbore for something that has almost double the flux per second.

Tach lance is hitscan, turns faster, and does enough damage to sweep off weaker ships even with a glancing hit. Comparing it to Hellbore, an extremely flux efficient weapon with terrible soft stats, isn't exactly fair to it, it's more correct to compare to Mjolnir.

The am blaster does have utility that no ballistics really provide but its still a 9 op weapon.

AM Blaster has the utility of being essentially a short-ranged torpedo you can just stick into a midliner's hybrid PD slots.