Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Megas]

Since Recall Device seems to have been worked out best for bombers, make bombers cheaper than normal for Astral as a blunt hint to use mostly bombers on Astral.

Basically, Heavy Ballistics Integration, but for bombers instead of heavy ballistics.  The discount need not be -10 like HBI, but less like maybe -4 or -5 to make low-grade bombers (worth 12 OP or less) about as cheap as midgrade fighters.

[Grievous69]

That makes no sense, if anything, fighters should be cheaper because you're using the "wrong" tool. As in you're not utilizing the maximum potential damage. So either playstyle could be viable, Astral with fighters and some weapons, or bomber spam we have today. Making bombers cheaper is literally the same as increasing the base OP pool, but reinforcing that you should never ever put a single fighter wing on it.

[Megas]

That makes no sense, if anything, fighters should be cheaper because you're using the "wrong" tool. As in you're not utilizing the maximum potential damage. So either playstyle could be viable, Astral with fighters and some weapons, or bomber spam we have today. Making bombers cheaper is literally the same as increasing the base OP pool, but reinforcing that you should never ever put a single fighter wing on it.

Is there any point to use more than one, maybe two, fighters (as a distraction for the rest) on Astral?  The long cooldown delay Recall Device got recently basically killed it for non-bombers.

If Astral needed more OP, then instead of giving it more OP, it can get an OP discount on the things that work best with Recall Device... and/or with builtin Advanced Optics.

Maybe Astral can get a discount with beams instead or in addition.

[Jackundor]

That makes no sense, if anything, fighters should be cheaper because you're using the "wrong" tool. As in you're not utilizing the maximum potential damage. So either playstyle could be viable, Astral with fighters and some weapons, or bomber spam we have today. Making bombers cheaper is literally the same as increasing the base OP pool, but reinforcing that you should never ever put a single fighter wing on it.

Is there any point to use more than one, maybe two, fighters (as a distraction for the rest) on Astral?  The long cooldown delay Recall Device got recently basically killed it for non-bombers.

If Astral needed more OP, then instead of giving it more OP, it can get an OP discount on the things that work best with Recall Device... and/or with builtin Advanced Optics.

Maybe Astral can get a discount with beams instead or in addition.

ok so basically "if Astral needs more OP then instead of giving it more OP we can just make it so you need less OP for the meta builds"

why?
how do you justify that instead of just more op

in your first post you said "as a blunt hint to use mostly bombers on Astral" but 1. why do we need that instead of just letting players think for themselves and 2. why would such a hint need to affect balance? You could just change the Description of the Astral or it's System

as far as i am concerned tuning Astral even more to bomber use just restricts build variety and adds complexity for basically no benefit compared to a simple OP increase (if we presume that the Astral needs a buff to begin with)

[FooF]

Yeah, if anything, Astral needs incentive to not just use all bombers.

Here’s an idea, what if Recall Device had a passive ability that would make new fighters (not bombers) teleport to the active engagement? Basically, as fighters get killed, as soon as a new one is launched, it’s blinked to an “engaged” target. If you have 2 Broadswords and 4 Daggers, for example, and set them to Engage, upon Recall, only the Bombers go back. The Broadswords continue to fight and as they get destroyed, new fighters launch and are teleported directly to the target. Meanwhile, the next wave of Daggers launch their payloads. If you switch to Rearm, all fighters are recalled when the system is used.

So for protracted fights, interceptors and fighters don’t have to fly back to the target and the Astral can reinforce them without delay. I think that would keep interceptors in the mix for Astrals.

Heck, just making it so interceptors don’t get recalled during Engage orders would be kind of nice.

[braciszek]

I'm not sure what incentivizing a behavior that is already optimal is supposed to achieve.

Yeah, if anything, Astral needs incentive to not just use all bombers.

Here’s an idea, what if Recall Device had a passive ability that would make new fighters (not bombers) teleport to the active engagement? Basically, as fighters get killed, as soon as a new one is launched, it’s blinked to an “engaged” target. If you have 2 Broadswords and 4 Daggers, for example, and set them to Engage, upon Recall, only the Bombers go back. The Broadswords continue to fight and as they get destroyed, new fighters launch and are teleported directly to the target. Meanwhile, the next wave of Daggers launch their payloads. If you switch to Rearm, all fighters are recalled when the system is used.

So for protracted fights, interceptors and fighters don’t have to fly back to the target and the Astral can reinforce them without delay. I think that would keep interceptors in the mix for Astrals.

Heck, just making it so interceptors don’t get recalled during Engage orders would be kind of nice.

This would certainly be more interesting than just making bomber usage more convenient, which everyone uses, anyways. I feel discouraged to mix fighters as a result of recall device, and this would help alleviate that.

[FooF]

I’m going to clarify the above idea a bit. At least one ship in the wing has to be engaged at the target location for the reinforcement to teleport forward. If the whole wing gets wiped, replacements will have to make the traditional carrier-to-target run.

[Serenitis]

An alternative angle to encouraging interceptor use in a more passive manner while also doubling down on the 'pure' carrier angle, would be to give the Astral a unique built-in that allows it to launch additional fighters like the reserve deployment ability, but permanently.
The ability only applies to non-bombers (possibly excluding support types - not sure about this yet given the new addition).

Bombers are more effective because of the recall device.
Fighters are more effective because there's more of them than normal.

Call it Specialised Hangar Deck or something.

Spoiler

This ship has a large internal volume filled with equipment and machinery purpose built for handling and maintaining small auxilliary craft.
As a result, a higher than normal number of Interceptor and Assault fighters can be stored and deployed simultaneously due to thier small size and lack of complexity.
Larger Bomber and Support craft do not benefit from this as they and thier munititions require more space for themselves and thier supporting personnel. And the craft themselves are more complex and maintenance intensive.

[close]

[FooF]

An alternative angle to encouraging interceptor use in a more passive manner while also doubling down on the 'pure' carrier angle, would be to give the Astral a unique built-in that allows it to launch additional fighters like the reserve deployment ability, but permanently.
The ability only applies to non-bombers (possibly excluding support types - not sure about this yet given the new addition).

Bombers are more effective because of the recall device.
Fighters are more effective because there's more of them than normal.

Call it Specialised Hangar Deck or something.

Spoiler

This ship has a large internal volume filled with equipment and machinery purpose built for handling and maintaining small auxilliary craft.
As a result, a higher than normal number of Interceptor and Assault fighters can be stored and deployed simultaneously due to thier small size and lack of complexity.
Larger Bomber and Support craft do not benefit from this as they and thier munititions require more space for themselves and thier supporting personnel. And the craft themselves are more complex and maintenance intensive.

[close]

I really like this. It would also be an absolutely brilliant idea for the midline Capital carrier thread. I think it word thematically with a large “traditional” carrier. The Astral being super high tech makes me lean toward a more cutting-edge solution but this could also work really well. 

[smithney]

I really like this. It would also be an absolutely brilliant idea for the midline Capital carrier thread. I think it word thematically with a large “traditional” carrier. The Astral being super high tech makes me lean toward a more cutting-edge solution but this could also work really well.

I don't think we're getting a capital midline carrier anytime soon, if ever. Current factions don't really need one for various reasons, while Astral sits in the uncomfortable position of being a pure carrier in a tech school that can't really support it, used by a faction with a fleet doctrine that doesn't use its full potential.

But back to the point. Astral being an archetypical carrier deserves a hullmod that would encourage different fighter setups like this. I support that.

[gG_pilot]

make bombers cheaper than normal for Astral as a blunt hint to use mostly bombers on Astral.

Agree. 
As long as next patch bring hulmode :
- rocket-loader for Falcon.
- Deck-B for Drover. https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/1633543696896385050/photo/1
- other one trick-pony hullmod <insert_here>
 It is obvious that Astral need also special hullmode. Well, you know what, Lets make a special hullmod for  every ship. Include a special very special case when they are s-moded. As we now, built-in and s-mode receive same special special reserved for s-mode only bonus. Everyone know that more bonuses applayed on bonuses to counter maluses which are applied due too much bonuses is the only proper gameplay.
 
------------------------------------------------
Some  questions to think about:
Is rock paper scissor great game ?
How many bonuses it has ?
 

[Oni]

.... I don't think we're getting a capital midline carrier anytime soon, if ever.....

You know, I honestly forgot that the Sentinel Supercarrier wasn't vanilla (it's from Fighter Expansion Rebalanced).
It's just been in my load order so long that I forgot it wasn't originally there.