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[Princess_of_Evil]

Heron should get +10 OP Mora got, or at least +5 OP if counting small mounts (while medium counts for two smalls); Heron has 8 (and 100 OP) while Mora has 12 (and 125 OP).

Let's be real, most carriers in the game have noticeably less OP than they'd like. You can't even put PD onto an Astral without sacrificing power.

[Jackundor]

Midline is mostly supposed to be cruiser school doctrine, so i think something on the smaller side would fit best, maybe even below 40 DP, 4-5 bays, decent speed, maybe 45 like conquest... not tanky but maybe the same firepower as a falcon...

[Megas]

Heron should get +10 OP Mora got, or at least +5 OP if counting small mounts (while medium counts for two smalls); Heron has 8 (and 100 OP) while Mora has 12 (and 125 OP).

Let's be real, most carriers in the game have noticeably less OP than they'd like. You can't even put PD onto an Astral without sacrificing power.

It depends by ship.  Condor is the worst offender, but its design seems to be part civilian like Mule, so not full-power combat.  Drover is a capable battlecarrier (it has the OP and mounts for combat frigate firepower), and I would use it more if Reserve Deployment was not such a self-destructive system.  It was hard to make Mora a battlecarrier before it got the +10 OP, but now it can.  Heron used to be as capable as an extra large Wolf before 0.8a (when skilled Wolf could solo big ships), but now, it is practically extra-large Condor, but without the civilian roots like Tarsus->Condor.  Legion is functional as a battlecarrier, even if it needs to use some cheap stuff without s-mods; its main problem is horrid dissipation.  Astral... needs to give up something.  I usually give up missiles because if I wanted that, I probably would take Conquest or Legion XIV instead.  It would be nice if Astral had more OP, no... OP discount on bombers (like Heavy Ballistics Integration for other capitals) instead of more OP, so it can arm itself with lots of guns.

[smithney]

A capital-sized Midline carrier would be shoehorning in something that the tech-school doesn't really need...

Anyway, a half-carrier, half-rocketship, all-support interceptor-oriented beeg ship is something Midline doesn't have and could make use of

[BigBrainEnergy]

Considering the conquest and pegasus are very missile heavy, and the conquest has large ballistics, I suspect this hypothetical carrier would bring 2 large energies instead. Also, the legion has 2 large ballistics and the astral has 2 large missiles so it would help differentiate it from the other carriers. Other than that, yeah a system that buffs fighters and interceptors makes a lot of sense.

[smithney]

I suspect this hypothetical carrier would bring 2 large energies instead.

So... an Odyssey? :^) I think we made this joke here already

I'd say it's not as much the top-down design that makes a hull what it is, but rather the bottom-up. Think about how Falcon looks like it's supposed to be a downsized Eagle, but in practice plays rather differently. A carrier with 2 large energies makes sense if it plays different enough from Odyssey and finds a strategic niche it can thrive in. What kind of niche do you have in mind?

[BigBrainEnergy]

It could be designed as a support ship. Those 2 large energies could be intended for paladins, which not only protect the ship itself but can shoot over allies to protect them as well. It could still use those slots for offensive weapons, but if it's not a battlecarrier it wouldn't have the stats to go toe-to-toe with other capitals. Another way to encourage paladins would be giving the large energies very wide firing arcs, then have a few medium ballistic hardpoints (offer some offensive power but as hardpoints can't really be used for pd), and like 4 small energy turrets with smaller arcs that only cover the sides of the ship.

In a similar vein, the fighters launched are not just for chasing down frigates (although they would still be good at that), but rather are for supporting your other ships and the carrier's system could reflect that. Maybe it significantly increases the range of non-missile weapons on fighters, but that by itself would probably not be strong enough as a system.

If you want to get spicy you could give it a hullmod that allows it to send support fighters to escort friendly ships. Maybe it increases their roam range but they can only shoot when close enough to a friendly ship so they can link up to its data feed for targeting.

[SafariJohn]

Midline capital carrier should steal Recall Device from Astral because RD overshadows Astral while a new capital carrier could be built around it.

[smithney]

It could be designed as a support ship. Those 2 large energies could be intended for paladins, which not only protect the ship itself but can shoot over allies to protect them as well. It could still use those slots for offensive weapons, but if it's not a battlecarrier it wouldn't have the stats to go toe-to-toe with other capitals. Another way to encourage paladins would be giving the large energies very wide firing arcs, then have a few medium ballistic hardpoints (offer some offensive power but as hardpoints can't really be used for pd), and like 4 small energy turrets with smaller arcs that only cover the sides of the ship.

In a similar vein, the fighters launched are not just for chasing down frigates (although they would still be good at that), but rather are for supporting your other ships and the carrier's system could reflect that. Maybe it significantly increases the range of non-missile weapons on fighters, but that by itself would probably not be strong enough as a system.

I really don't like funneling players into picking optimal weapons. Might as well make them built-in if the hull can't exist without them. Aside from that, the idea sounds basically like a large Champ with extra seasoning fighters. I personally wouldn't like a carrier where fighters feel like an afterthought or a token component. I also wonder if a design like this wouldn't just steal the spotlight from Champions and Eagles, undermining the identity of the "cruiser school" Midline is supposed to follow.

Still, a Capital-sized support cruiser does sound like something Midline is missing. Trying to make it big for perfectionism's sake just feels off when Midline is cemented to be built around firepower and tactical mobility. I'd prefer if it was instead designed as a plus-sized cruiser, kinda like the Conquest or the Retribution. What do you think?

[Igncom1]

Someone said it earlier about mid-line being a cruiser school design type.

So what about a small capital ship? But still having the same capabilities, but the result of miniaturization to make a small compact box of bees and whatever else?

Like a super-cruiser of some kind, next generation design in the terms of hanger technology where crews have their fighter build around them before launch for some mass wave attack every now and again from a seemingly impossibly small carrier for it's output?

Bigger doesn't always have to mean better after all!

[BigBrainEnergy]

Midline is not exclusively limited to the cruiser school philosophy, they are getting a battleship in the next patch.

I really don't like funneling players into picking optimal weapons. Might as well make them built-in if the hull can't exist without them. Aside from that, the idea sounds basically like a large Champ with extra seasoning fighters. I personally wouldn't like a carrier where fighters feel like an afterthought or a token component. I also wonder if a design like this wouldn't just steal the spotlight from Champions and Eagles, undermining the identity of the "cruiser school" Midline is supposed to follow.

Still, a Capital-sized support cruiser does sound like something Midline is missing. Trying to make it big for perfectionism's sake just feels off when Midline is cemented to be built around firepower and tactical mobility. I'd prefer if it was instead designed as a plus-sized cruiser, kinda like the Conquest or the Retribution. What do you think?

How? How any of this?

I'm talking about encouraging the player to use paladins because most will see large energies and immediately go for offensive options. That's fine, but tilting things in favor of encouraging paladins is all I'm talking about here. The ship wouldn't fall apart just by picking something different.

And how is it just a spicy champion? No missiles, no hef, and it has a fighter boosting system. I just don't see what you're getting at.

[FooF]

I’d suggest a drone ship but the Remnants just got one.

The problem with a “small capital” is that the Champion is already a Heavy Cruiser at 25 DP and a 30 DP carrier of some sort would probably overshadow the Heron. I just don’t see a need when the Heron is a great carrier as it is. A command ship or maybe a fighting logistics ship is about all I can think of that doesn’t already have an analog.

[Megas]

Midline is not exclusively limited to the cruiser school philosophy, they are getting a battleship in the next patch.

Especially in early releases when there were not so many ships.  If midline was heavily bound to cruiser school, I doubt there would be anything other than cruisers.  Midline is one of the big three tech styles, and it has a battlestation like the other two styles.  I see no reason why midline needs to be restricted to cruisers.  That said, midline and low-tech packs have lots of goodies, while the high-tech pack is sparse.

The biggest obstacle to a midline carrier capital (if the devs were so inclined) is who among the NPC factions will use it?  League? Hegemony? Independents? Pirates?  Who uses it ought to affect its stats.  If the League or Hegemony get it, then it can be a high-cost unit.  If it is the Indies or similar minor power, it should be no better than an elite cruiser or low-end capital (about 35 or 40 DP), yet still be something more than a stock Heron.

[braciszek]

Midline is not exclusively limited to the cruiser school philosophy, they are getting a battleship in the next patch.

Especially in early releases when there were not so many ships.  If midline was heavily bound to cruiser school, I doubt there would be anything other than cruisers.  Midline is one of the big three tech styles, and it has a battlestation like the other two styles.  I see no reason why midline needs to be restricted to cruisers.  That said, midline and low-tech packs have lots of goodies, while the high-tech pack is sparse.

The biggest obstacle to a midline carrier capital (if the devs were so inclined) is who among the NPC factions will use it?  League? Hegemony? Independents? Pirates?  Who uses it ought to affect its stats.  If the League or Hegemony get it, then it can be a high-cost unit.  If it is the Indies or similar minor power, it should be no better than an elite cruiser or low-end capital (about 35 or 40 DP), yet still be something more than a stock Heron.

Alex is making it so that the indies will no longer be able to field capital ships, and it is against Diktat doctrine to use carriers and fighters, and their access to ships will be adjusted accordingly. TT will no longer use midline carriers either, iirc (their only carrier will be the astral). That really does leave only the Heg and PL. With the upcoming update, each faction will have two unique capital ships (well, the diktat will have only the executor which is a pegasus skin), and the odyssey is a bit of an oddball with regards to this. I think it'll be a bit weird for the Heg to have another capital carrier besides their legion, so I personally could only see the PL getting such a thing.
But with regards to capital ship access equality, it'll be more likely we'll see a ship of a smaller class, like a hightech cruiser carrier, than another new capital ship.

But that's technically a separate issue to the question of what the ship would actually look like. Though it wouldn't matter if it is hard to justify needing one in the first place, I suppose...

Stolen pirate pegasus with large missiles replaced with hangar bays and some medium mounts replaced with missiles

[Megas]

I know about Alex's plan of no capitals for Indies.  A shame because it is cruiser spam.  Lots of Dominators and Apogees, with few of the others like Fury.

If Tri-Tachyon has all of the classic high-tech ships, then they have three capitals, Odyssey, Astral, and Paragon.