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Author Topic: What would a midline capital carrier be like?  (Read 2684 times)

BigBrainEnergy

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What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« on: March 07, 2023, 09:11:49 PM »



Soon, every other tech level will have a 60 dp ship, and midline has no capital carrier... so it only makes sense they would get a 60 dp carrier right? But would it be more of a battlecarrier like the legion (probably with 5 fighter bays) or would it be a pure carrier like the astral, bringing a whole 8 bays so it uses up the full capacity of your carrier skills by itself?

On the other hand, you could argue it should be 45 dp. Just like how onslaught -> pegasus -> paragon is 40 -> 50 -> 60, it would make sense for it to sit right between the legion and the astral in terms of dp. That being said, I don't know if there's any room for more capitals now that every major faction has 2 unique capitals and every minor faction has 1. Except independents, cuz they don't exist.
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BCS

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2023, 11:11:30 PM »

I keept thinking about it for five minutes and concluded that it would be an Odyssey.
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Igncom1

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2023, 11:22:41 PM »

Probably some hyper specialised thing that causes massive arguments whenever it is brought up.

Like a massive interceptor carrier. Making people wonder if it's the worst ship in the game, or actually the best.
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Princess_of_Evil

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2023, 11:39:37 PM »

A true battlecruiser carrier, probably. Something fast and with a system that helps specifically not bombers. A flux syphon that steals flux from fighters while active, maybe.
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SCC

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2023, 11:42:52 PM »

Is there a point to a bigger midline dedicated carrier,  when you can just use 2 or 3 Herons instead and get close enough results?

Princess_of_Evil

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2023, 11:59:53 PM »

Is there a point to a bigger midline dedicated carrier,  when you can just use 2 or 3 Herons instead and get close enough results?
Is there a point to any carrier when Heron exists?
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Koldo27

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2023, 12:23:03 AM »

Two CH Gryphons glued together with a hullmod that buffs bombers.
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FooF

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2023, 08:34:49 AM »

Midline being the “Cruiser school”, the Heron fills this superbly. You just bring 2.

That said, I remember starting a thread about this some years ago that generated a lot of discussion. One of my thoughts was a battle carrier that doubled as a logistics ship.

With the addition of the Pegasus, I don’t foresee a Midline Capital carrier. Anything it does would take away from the Legion, Astral, Heron or all three.
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Rusty Edge

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2023, 10:36:07 AM »

A capital sized Shepherd drone tender, with mounts and built in hullmods that favor a strong support role.
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Megas

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2023, 11:49:20 AM »

If I had to guess, a bigger Heron, like how the Champion is a bigger Hammerhead or the midline capitals are bigger Falcon/Eagle.

Legion is a battlecarrier.
Astral is a bomber carrier.
So, a non-bomber focused capital-sized carrier (that favors mostly interceptors and heavy fighters) would be nice.

Heron is a cruiser and does not count.

Midline could use a proper capital-sized carrier.  But... high-tech could use destroyer and/or cruiser-sized carriers, but since the primary high-tech faction will focus mostly on warships and phase ships, there does not seem much point to giving them ships they will not use.  Similarly, what faction would use a midline capital carrier?  League seems to be set already.  Maybe the Diktat since they only have one capital, a Pegasus knockoff.  But Diktat feels like an aggressive faction, not one to hide behind fighters.

Aside, the one faction that could use (another or replacement) capital (and a second cruiser) is Derelicts.  Guardian looks like a limited special boss that get shoehorned into Derelicts when contacts needed a capital attached to Derelicts to make those bounties bigger.  Would be nice if there was a Derelict capital more on par with Atlas/Prometheus II instead of a Ziggurat-tier monster.
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Ruddygreat

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2023, 02:02:18 PM »

just had a thought w/r/t the new drover changes that got announced (though lets not derail the thread to be about them :p) - a potential angle for a midline cap carrier could be a "budget" (say 35-40dp) 4-5 bay interceptor-focused thing with the new b-decks hullmod, something that doesn't necessarily have the staying power or damage output of an astral / legion, but could theoretically swarm the enemy with fighters for long enough to make missile / hit-and-run attacks more dangerous (or just generally cover for midline's fairly anemic pd options).

(through tbh I do also agree with megas, a new non-guardian derelict capital would be some great variety for them & make the guardian much more of an Event when it does pop up)

Psigun

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2023, 09:30:14 PM »

Like has been said already, a bigger Heron. Mobile and a good amount of bays, fighter-support subsystem. Not too great in a standup fight, but fast enough to keep away from the nastier capital ships and enough bays to make it a high-priority threat over long engagements.
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braciszek

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2023, 09:51:41 PM »

Fortunately, Tart gave us the herald PANTS
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Serenitis

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2023, 12:15:30 AM »

Probably some hyper specialised thing that causes massive arguments whenever it is brought up.
A true battlecruiser carrier, probably. Something fast...
This wretched thing from aeons ago - the engines of a Conquest with "stuff" bolted to the front of it.
Okay number of missiles for support, but none of them face directly forwards.
Respectable number of big guns, but most of them are fixed. On a capital.
The only one of these that isn't fixed is energy, but that's also the only arc that can potentially 100% cover the front with PD. Do you put a Paladin in there or more gun? Who knows, have an argument to find out!
Spoiler

[close]

Is there a point to any carrier when Heron exists?
Heron has destroyer level PPT and has to spend a significant amount of it's very limited OP mitigating this (and it already can't really afford weapons), otherwise it can't handle fleet actions that well and frequently has to go home early.
So yes, there are reasons you might want to use other carriers.
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Megas

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Re: What would a midline capital carrier be like?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2023, 04:16:13 AM »

(through tbh I do also agree with megas, a new non-guardian derelict capital would be some great variety for them & make the guardian much more of an Event when it does pop up)
I do not mind Guardian being in Derelicts, but its DP should reflect its power (40 is far too low), and it should not be so common in every high-level Derelict bounty (three Guardians per fight).  Also, it would be nice to recover it, even if it means removing infinite missiles from builtin Missile Autoforge.  Having a second capital ought to make the Guardian rarer in Derelict fights, especially if it is weighted more.

Is there a point to any carrier when Heron exists?
Heron has destroyer level PPT and has to spend a significant amount of it's very limited OP mitigating this (and it already can't really afford weapons), otherwise it can't handle fleet actions that well and frequently has to go home early.
So yes, there are reasons you might want to use other carriers.
Last release, Mora got +10 OP while Heron got nothing.  It is possible to build a battlecarrier with Mora with basic midgrade equipment (thanks +10 OP), but not really with Heron without s-mods.  Heron either needs to downgrade something to low-grade (like Talons or Wasps for fighters) or have minimal flux stats (or no ITU).

Heron should get +10 OP Mora got, or at least +5 OP if counting small mounts (while medium counts for two smalls); Heron has 8 (and 100 OP) while Mora has 12 (and 125 OP).

just had a thought w/r/t the new drover changes that got announced (though lets not derail the thread to be about them :p) - a potential angle for a midline cap carrier could be a "budget" (say 35-40dp) 4-5 bay interceptor-focused thing with the new b-decks hullmod, something that doesn't necessarily have the staying power or damage output of an astral / legion, but could theoretically swarm the enemy with fighters for long enough to make missile / hit-and-run attacks more dangerous (or just generally cover for midline's fairly anemic pd options).
Sounds like something that could be a flagship for the Rebels or the ragtag fleet on the run.  Something for the Independents.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 04:23:13 AM by Megas »
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