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[BaBosa]

Paragon actually handles overfluxing better than most ships because it can dissipate that flux while in fortress shield. Overfluxing means that you can spend more time in fortress shield without wasting as much flux dissipation.

[Draba]

I think paragon in particular benefits from not overfluxing too much because it has fortress shield which uses capacity very efficiently, so it's better to save capacity to block damage (forcing the enemy to trade flux for 90% reduced damage on top of .6 or better shield efficiency, instead of spending your capacity on >1 flux/damage energy weapons). You don't need to be perfectly neutral but significantly overfluxing is bad IMO.

Also, in general, overfluxing with inefficient guns (like tach lance) is bad for the AI because it will fire into shields (and the flux efficiency means you are building more flux in your own ship than the opponent) and then back off because of high flux. You can overcome that to some extent with reckless AI, but that has... other downsides. It can also be tricky to get the AI to turn off the right guns on high flux and you have to be clever with weapon groupings.

Keep in mind that fights are basically never 1v1.
When a Radiant jumps a cruiser main worry isn't exactly how much damage you do for 1 flux, it's dumping everything into the Radiant so the cruiser doesn't take too much damage.
Cruiser gets in front of the mains? No need to worry about flux/damage, just dump everything so it can't back out in time.
Capital in front? Dump everything, fortress, dump again, fortress until enemy is hardfluxed and Paragon isn't.

Paragon's main downside is being super clunky, so making sure it always has some soft flux built up for the times it can't shoot is generally a good idea.
Otherwise some dissipation is wasted, and trying to get into an endurance match often means enemies just back up anyway.


There are ships that do not want too much flux in weapons, usually (non-fortress)shield line holders and smaller ones with no strong hull to fall back on.
High soft buildup means they are susceptible to being bursted down.

[intrinsic_parity]

Keep in mind that fights are basically never 1v1.

Yes, fights are never 1v1, so if you dump all your capacity into inefficient energy weapons to kill one ship, you will not have much capacity left to use your extremely efficient shields against the other ships you are engaging, whereas if you are firing around dissipation, then the enemies are wasting their flux on your (fortress) shield while you deal steady damage. A paragon on max flux is unable to use its most valuable asset (shield).

Obviously like 20%-30% over dissipation is fine because fortress shield gives some extra effective dissipation, but weapon flux doubling dissipation is very bad IMO.

IMO, how tolerant a ship is to over-fluxing is about how much they rely on shields. The more you want to keep shields up, the less you want to overflux. It also relates to weapon efficiency (and opposing shield efficiency): firing weapons over dissipation can be actively bad if you are building up flux faster in your own ship than the opponent (tac lances are pretty bad for this, particularly since the AI like to fire them on cooldown rather than saving them for armor/hull damage where they are actually effective).

The other factor I was thinking about recently is polarized armor, since that is based on hard flux, so you might actually want to avoid generating too much soft flux to maximize polarized armor value, but I am not sure how important that is.

[Megas]

The other factor I was thinking about recently is polarized armor, since that is based on hard flux, so you might actually want to avoid generating too much soft flux to maximize polarized armor value, but I am not sure how important that is.

Kind of important for the likes of Onslaught, at least when I tried to solo fleets with only two Neural Linked Onslaughts (as an alternative to Ziggurat).  Actually, AI-controlled Onslaught will buildup hard flux naturally as it fights, and flux stays high for a prolonged time unless I instant-transfer to my body double and vent (but since transfer is not instant, what happens is AI sees all the missiles I held back on my flagship and starts firing off my missiles before I transfer back.)

Ships without shields can get away with overfluxing much more than normal ships since they do not overload when flux gets too high.  It was one reason why I tried Shield Shunt on midline and high-tech ships for a short while.

[Draba]

Obviously like 20%-30% over dissipation is fine because fortress shield gives some extra effective dissipation, but weapon flux doubling dissipation is very bad IMO.

Hold on to your ass then, a fleet like this actually works and the paragons do the heavy lifting

[Princess_of_Evil]

Automated ships are weird. You either have Paragon but better, unshielded (but basically free to recover) Hammerheads, one or two frigates so cheap they work just as cannon fodder, or pieces of papier-mache barely space-worthy and not even worth their supplies. This serious discrepancy is more of a pressing issue than power level of bigger automated ships, frankly.

[Megas]

Automated ships are weird.

It is.  Because automated hulls are not better than human hulls, it is weird alternative blend of Officer Training and Cybernetic Augmentation.  Player gets one large ship with an alpha core (Radiant taking a huge CR penalty) or two to four smaller ships with alpha cores.  Anything else, player is probably better off with human ships buffed by officer skills.  Also, cores do not give battle map DP, which makes it feel a bit inferior to Officer Training/Management.

The main appeal of Automated Ships for me is unlocking access to automated ships, even if the ships are not (or barely) good enough to justify Automated Ships being a capstone.  I feel like I should be unlocking boss characters much stronger than standard or at least, and it did when Radiant was 40 DP few releases ago.  Now it does not, it feels like I am unlocking more costumes instead of stronger, unfair, or unbalanced units, if not for AI cores.  It probably should be in the same tier as Officer Training/Management at best, and only because of the power of alpha cores.  If automated ships stay more or less balanced as human hulls, then the skill should be changed so that the hulls can be recovered and deployed without the skill, but installing cores (which gives automated ships power superior to human ships) and deploying them (in case core gets installed and player respecs later) requires the skill.  Also, cores counting as officers for DP should be reverted back to counting.  In short, cores uplifting automated ships above human ships practically makes Automated Ships a weird officer skill.  Without cores, Automated Ships is no better than the non-combat (tier 1 and 3) Industry skills.

Neural Link is basically Automated Ships that works for human ships, and it is even worse (giving one human ship your commander's beta-omega core equivalent skill power).  Only one ship regardless of size and a significant OP penalty (from the Neural hullmod tax).  Neural Reset helps fix few dysfunctional systems with absurdly long recharge like Quantum Disruptor.  Neural Link also relies on taking more personal skills in Combat and possibly Industry for its power.  At minimum, Neural Integration should be removed, and Neural Interface works with everything (as long as automated ships without cores are generally no stronger than human ships without officers).  It would be better if there was no hullmod tax, or the hullmod was free if it has to be kept to make UI usable.  Also, get rid of DP limit that enforces a delay between transferring.  As it is, it is no better than other tier 3 tech skills.

P.S.  Another thing against automated ships is the player cannot get blueprints for any of them.  If player wants pristine automated ships, he needs either Hull Restoration (and not accumulate too many d-mods to drag out d-mod removal) or lots of credits to Restore them.  (Remnants will always have d-mods when recovered from the enemy.  Maybe Derelicts too, but those have Rugged Construction.)  Restore costs for automated ships are high, about on par with elite high-tech human ships.  Makes Hull Restoration very attractive to get those ships pristine.

[BCS]

Automated ships are weird. You either have Paragon but better, unshielded (but basically free to recover) Hammerheads, one or two frigates so cheap they work just as cannon fodder, or pieces of papier-mache barely space-worthy and not even worth their supplies. This serious discrepancy is more of a pressing issue than power level of bigger automated ships, frankly.

Remnant ships will get a shakeup next patch. Some existing hulls getting rebalanced and some new ones added.

[Megas]

Remnant ships will get a shakeup next patch. Some existing hulls getting rebalanced and some new ones added.

Fulgent is getting the Paragon treatment (more shot range) to try to get it above mediocrity.  Maybe it will be good, but I doubt it will be overpowered.

As for the new ships (and redone Brilliant), as long as they do not easily run away after losing the flux war like Radiant can, I do not see them as being overpowered enough to worry about them if they do not get abnormal stats.  If anything, I am a bit concerned they end up more like Shrike and Fury (and AI Odyssey), possibly overrelying on alpha core power as a crutch to keep them strong enough to not fall apart after they charge in against the stronger human ships.

The automated ships I like to see renovated are the Derelicts.  The only good one is Rampart.  Guardian is overpowered (too low DP), and the rest are severely underpowered.  (I rather take Vanguards over the smaller Derelicts.)  It would be nice if there was another Derelict cruiser to cut down on Rampart spam in some fights.  And make Guardian recoverable.  Raise its DP cost to 60 or higher.  Maybe replace the built-in Missile Autoforge with Expanded Missile Racks to prevent infinite missile cheese in player's hands.  Maybe give Guardian a new built-in mod to reload missiles between combat rounds.

[intrinsic_parity]

You can also use automated ships to get a bunch of gamma core frigates that benefit from wolfpack tactics and count towards electronic warfare stuff.

Honestly, I'm not even sure alpha core is worth it over beta core all the time. 6 skills from a beta core is frequently enough to get the best stuff and the last 3 are just ok. I've tried beta radiant + gamma frigates and it seemed solid.

[BCS]

If anything, I am a bit concerned they end up more like Shrike and Fury (and AI Odyssey), possibly overrelying on alpha core power as a crutch to keep them strong enough to not fall apart after they charge in against the stronger human ships.

I'm lowkey counting on it. Especially the new Remnant BC with high tech version of Orion Device(?), that's a lot of DP to pilot fearlessly.

As for Derelicts I feel like it's kind of their point to not be good. I guess the real problem is the 120 DP limit of Automated Ships - normally bad ships can simply be spammed because their badness is balanced out by their low DP. But well, Automated Ships only gives you 120 DP to work with and even that is without any AI Cores. Maybe if Derelict ships counted only as half as much for Automated Ships calculations?

[Megas]

You can also use automated ships to get a bunch of gamma core frigates that benefit from wolfpack tactics and count towards electronic warfare stuff.

That works too but needs to be built for it.  Not everything can make use of that.  In my case, I do not have the skills or enough DP left after my large ships to make that option worthwhile.

Honestly, I'm not even sure alpha core is worth it over beta core all the time. 6 skills from a beta core is frequently enough to get the best stuff and the last 3 are just ok. I've tried beta radiant + gamma frigates and it seemed solid.

Six is probably enough, but that means integrating the core, which burns a skill point (without refund?) and the only way to get the core back is to scuttle the ship.  Five base is probably not enough for everything.

For Radiant, beta still burns too much CR.  If I want to use Radiant, it is either gamma for CR (or less points used) or alpha for power.  I am more open to beta for smaller ships.

I'm lowkey counting on it. Especially the new Remnant BC with high tech version of Orion Device(?), that's a lot of DP to pilot fearlessly.

Fearless without easy escape means it dies once the ship gets pummeled enough.  The problem with Radiant is not only it is hard to damage, but also after its shield gets damaged enough, it is easy for it to get away and undo all that damage quickly and return for another assault without having taken any lasting damage.  If the burn Remnants have stats close enough to human ships (aside from high-class cores), I expect them to crash-and-burn about as easily as them.

As for Derelicts I feel like it's kind of their point to not be good. I guess the real problem is the 120 DP limit of Automated Ships - normally bad ships can simply be spammed because their badness is balanced out by their low DP. But well, Automated Ships only gives you 120 DP to work with and even that is without any AI Cores. Maybe if Derelict ships counted only as half as much for Automated Ships calculations?

They can be bad just by being balanced, but not sending as much DP worth of ships against the player.

Rampart is actually good (works much like a shunted Dominator that costs only 15 DP instead of 25 DP), and Guardian is hideously overpowered at 40 DP (more so than Radiant at 40 DP).  It is the Derelict destroyers and frigates that are so bad (except maybe Warden) that human ships of comparable DP cost, even those combat ships without shields, are better.

[Draba]

You can also use automated ships to get a bunch of gamma core frigates that benefit from wolfpack tactics and count towards electronic warfare stuff.

Can also use up to 6 alpha glimmers before penalties start (or 8 betas in case 6 aren't enough to do the frigate jobs).
IMO one of the biggest power boosts you can get for 5 DP a pop, a much better option than a Radiant.
Early on not many betas/alphas to go around for them, but even a few are huge jumps.

Rampart is actually good (works much like a shunted Dominator that costs only 15 DP instead of 25 DP)

Dominator without shunt has significantly higher hull, same armor, shields, better slots and almost double the OP.
Rampart bings a cheap L missile and can use eco L ballistics, but can't really tank or brawl and gets worn down fast in a standoff.
Dominator is much stronger, as it should be at 10 more DP.
IIRC it was mentioned that derelicts aren't meant to be strong in player hands, but don't quote me

[BCS]

Fearless without easy escape means it dies once the ship gets pummeled enough.

Exactly my point - and that's good. Remnants certainly could use to be a tad easier to fight, especially if it's done in such an organic way.

It is the Derelict destroyers and frigates that are so bad (except maybe Warden) that human ships of comparable DP cost, even those combat ships without shields, are better.

I think the real "issue" here is that you simply don't use cheap frigates in endgame fights and both Derelicts and Remnant ONLY get cheap frigates(3-5 DP range) If you gave them something in the ~8 DP range I think they'd fare much better. And destroyers are kinda useless in general, I'm dying on that hill.

[Doctorhealsgood]

Remnant ships will get a shakeup next patch. Some existing hulls getting rebalanced and some new ones added.

Fulgent is getting the Paragon treatment (more shot range) to try to get it above mediocrity.  Maybe it will be good, but I doubt it will be overpowered.

As for the new ships (and redone Brilliant), as long as they do not easily run away after losing the flux war like Radiant can, I do not see them as being overpowered enough to worry about them if they do not get abnormal stats.  If anything, I am a bit concerned they end up more like Shrike and Fury (and AI Odyssey), possibly overrelying on alpha core power as a crutch to keep them strong enough to not fall apart after they charge in against the stronger human ships.

The automated ships I like to see renovated are the Derelicts.  The only good one is Rampart.  Guardian is overpowered (too low DP), and the rest are severely underpowered.  (I rather take Vanguards over the smaller Derelicts.)  It would be nice if there was another Derelict cruiser to cut down on Rampart spam in some fights.  And make Guardian recoverable.  Raise its DP cost to 60 or higher.  Maybe replace the built-in Missile Autoforge with Expanded Missile Racks to prevent infinite missile cheese in player's hands.  Maybe give Guardian a new built-in mod to reload missiles between combat rounds.

A bit of a derelict touch up could be neat. I don't know why exactly but i like those automated flying blocks with guns. As for the guardian you can probably use that new missile hullmod that reloads small missiles as a baseline to make a version of it but cooler for player use i guess.