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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Author Topic: Kinetic AI fix  (Read 969 times)

Lortus

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Kinetic AI fix
« on: February 19, 2023, 04:54:00 AM »

I was messing around with a ship with a single kinetic weapon in the sim, and noticed it wouldn't fire it at shieldless ships. I'm not sure if this was caused by only having a single weapon group, or some other issue, but I think it could be looked into, since it just refused to do damage to ship.

Sorry if this was already addressed in the patch notes
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Alex

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2023, 08:22:14 AM »

Hmm - not seeing the behavior you're describing, e.g. a Lasher with a LDAC (and nothing else) is happily firing it at a Hound. Also, there's nothing I can think of in the AI that would cause this, though it's possible there's some unexpected interaction. Do you have a specific example?
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Nimiety

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2023, 09:05:42 AM »

sorta related, I made an autocannon/LAG vanguard and the only way I could get the AI to fire the LAGs when shields dropped/flux was high was to put all the weapons in the same group.
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Alex

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2023, 09:58:07 AM »

Thank you, I appreciate the info! For AI stuff, it really does need more detail, though. Case in point, I've just loaded up a Vanguard with LAGs and Light ACs, and it has no problems firing both while they're in separate groups.

So ideally, for something like this, it'd include:

1) The specific loadout and
2) A vanilla simulation opponent to try it against, with a description of how often/under what conditions it seems to happen

That way, I can be sure I'm trying the same thing you're. So for example in this case, it could be that there was an issue and I'm not seeing it because some AI changes in the dev build fixed it (good). Or that there is still an issue and my test is just different from yours and therefore I'm not seeing it (bad).
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Nimiety

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2023, 11:27:23 AM »

They were performing so terribly I sold em, and of course now that I try to replicate the design it doesn't behave the same way.

1x LAG, 2x dual AC, 2x vulcan, 2x hammer, annihilator in the middle. armored mounts, max vents, heavy armour. What it was doing was turning off autofire on the LAGs and the ACs and only firing the autocannons. It wasn't single ACs with a range mismatch either, I still have the dual ACs I stripped off of them in my fleet inventory.

Very weird! and probably not helpful (sorry)
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Candesce

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2023, 01:53:38 PM »

Just had an incident that seems like it might be related to whatever was happening here.

I was experimenting with a Storm Needler Conquest build, and took my fleet up against a Pather station. Part way through the fight, I'd settled down into a close broadside to the station, having killed off all the ships nearby and one of the three station sections, and was pouring fire into a second section - only, the Storm Needlers (and possibly other guns, but the Needlers were really easy to notice) weren't willing to fire at that section, despite being easily in range and having an empty flux bar. They only started firing once the third section rotated into an available firing angle.

I'm guessing I might have gotten too close, and my guns were shutting themselves off to avoid catching me in a death explosion?

I don't actually have a save of the incident, but if it comes up again, I'll try.
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Zsar

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2023, 05:35:24 AM »

This happened to me the first time I tried to put a Gauss Cannon onto a Mudskipper Mk.2. The ship would dance about and not fire, until its Simulation enemy eventually sprayed it down.
... A couple of days later I tried again and the issue did not repeat itself.

So, yes, I can confirm this happens sometimes in 0.95.1a , but sadly I have no further information on how. It is certainly not reproducible on demand.

[...] Part way through the fight, I'd settled down into a close broadside to the station, having killed off all the ships nearby and one of the three station sections, and was pouring fire into a second section - only, the Storm Needlers (and possibly other guns, but the Needlers were really easy to notice) weren't willing to fire at that section, despite being easily in range and having an empty flux bar.

[...]
I think this might be something different. I have an Onslaught build with Heavy Mortars in the three front-most medium slots and those almost never fire at station segments. Not only are those not kinetic, it is also a much more frequent occasion (not-quite-reliably but more reproducible than not).

... Maybe try and check (or remember) whether your ship had an explicit attack order against the station? That seems to much exacerbate this issue for me (to other/more weapon slots; not 100% sure though) - I think the ship tries to aim weapons at the segment on the far side and registers the rest of the station as blocking their line of fire.

So far I have not been sure enough about what I am seeing here, so I have not yet reported it, but what you describe sounds like more of the same, so if you could confirm or deny... ?
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SafariJohn

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2023, 05:45:55 AM »

This happened to me the first time I tried to put a Gauss Cannon onto a Mudskipper Mk.2. The ship would dance about and not fire, until its Simulation enemy eventually sprayed it down.
... A couple of days later I tried again and the issue did not repeat itself.

Mudskipper needs extra capacitors to even fire some large weapons.
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Candesce

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2023, 07:01:17 AM »

... Maybe try and check (or remember) whether your ship had an explicit attack order against the station?
It was my flagship, so I can confidently say it did not.

(Unless there's something in the background that makes your flagship count as having an attack order when you fire missiles at something, anyway.)
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Lortus

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2023, 08:40:35 AM »

Sorry I haven't used the forums for a while. I was testing a single large kinetic ballistic modded weapon on a ship with a large turret against the vanilla cerberus. I noticed it wasn't firing on the AI so I decided to test with I think it was Gauss or Mk9 (I don't remember) against the same Cerberus and the AI wouldn't fire the weapon. I think it has something to do with the AI not perceiving the hit strength as good enough to use solo? or maybe there is a strike tag on the Gauss? I am not sure.
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Alex

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2023, 11:10:53 AM »

Hmm - it's not any of these things, I don't think. It's not going to avoid firing on armor just because the weapon is kinetic.

If you have a vanilla example where this happens, I'd love to take a look! Kind of sounds like it may be some kind of mod-issue, or perhaps an issue with the ship not having enough flux to fire the weapon, or some such, though.
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Lortus

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2023, 01:02:25 AM »

Tested it again and it doesn't work. Sorry to waste your time
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Alex

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Re: Kinetic AI fix
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2023, 09:34:01 AM »

No worries, I'd rather hear about something than not, even if it doesn't pan out in a specific case - thank you for taking the time!
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