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[BigBrainEnergy]

I don't know if this is actually a good idea, but I was thinking that the gryphon could stand to lose 50% of its (missile) rate of fire.

[Shinr]

It was subjectively frustrating when using Better Deserved S-Mods mod when the ships with built-in mods did not get s-mod bonuses.

But objectively this could get out of hand.

EDIT: Maybe get unique bonuses/penalties from being built-in that are different from s-mod ones?

[BaBosa]

It’d probably be better to have an option to give built in hullmods the s-mod effect or not. So then it doesn’t need to be a blanket rule.
Like a ( s-modEffect: true or false ) line underneath each built in hull mod.

[Serenitis]

But objectively this could get out of hand.

Which vanilla ships would cause problems if thier pre-built mods also gave them the conditional effects of those mods (which we don't know yet)?

[Jackundor]

bruh this would just nerf the gryphon into the ground

[BCS]

Okay so here's an unpopular opinion: Gryphon needs a buff, not a nerf.

You could have a Gryphon, a ship with no tank and which the AI is suicidal with, or for 5 DP more you could have a ship with an extra large energy mount and two medium energy mounts and a system that boosts its damage and with solid tank(Champion) Or for double the DP you could have extra two large ballistic/medium mounts and absolutely monstrous flux stats on a capital(Conquest) Or for (less than?) triple the DP you could have, in the future, one more large missile mount and an array of medium mounts with accelerated missile racks on a capital(Pegasus)

Hell, next patch we're also getting Pather version of the Manticore which will - presumably - be a large missile mount for just 11 DP with speed of a frigate.

[BigBrainEnergy]

Okay so here's an unpopular opinion: Gryphon needs a buff, not a nerf.

Well the gryphon is in a weird spot where a lot of builds are fun but not that good, but it has one overpowered build that turns it into a monster. I'd like to see the needler/reaper builds do better without squall/harpoon becoming even more braindead easy. Maybe drop the missile rate of fire and buff the flux stats.

[Doctorhealsgood]

Guess you could pay story points to S-moddify it without eating into the smod slots because it was already built in to begin with? You are just going and making it better or something.

[Wyvern]

Guess you could pay story points to S-moddify it without eating into the smod slots because it was already built in to begin with? You are just going and making it better or something.

I like this idea. Makes it so you aren't permanently locked out of the s-mod bonus just because the hullmod was already built-in, but also doesn't give you the extra 'for free', which seems to have been Alex's main complaint about this idea in the past.

[Alex]

Guess you could pay story points to S-moddify it without eating into the smod slots because it was already built in to begin with? You are just going and making it better or something.

Yeah, I like this idea, too - thank you for the suggestion. Did that; calling it "enhanced" in-game and using the same UI. This feels a lot better.

I like this idea. Makes it so you aren't permanently locked out of the s-mod bonus just because the hullmod was already built-in, but also doesn't give you the extra 'for free', which seems to have been Alex's main complaint about this idea in the past.

That, for sure. And also the logistics hullmods have some pretty major bonuses - at least right now, they may need to get reined in. But e.g. Surveying Equipment gives +100% to the survey cost reduction, and if every stock ship that had that got this, that'd be a bit extreme. Which, again, may be an indicator that the effect for those types of hullmods is too much, but it also seems pretty fun to be able to spend some story points to do this sort of thing - a hyper-efficient survey ship, a Dram that has majorly augmented fuel capacity, etc.

[Megas]

Guess you could pay story points to S-moddify it without eating into the smod slots because it was already built in to begin with? You are just going and making it better or something.

Yeah, I like this idea, too - thank you for the suggestion. Did that; calling it "enhanced" in-game and using the same UI. This feels a lot better.

Would that apply to built-ins that get penalties when s-modded?  If so, might want to block s-mods to built-ins if doing so would add a penalty and make it worse.

[BaBosa]

Would you give ships with the expensive built in hullmods the penalty and then “enhance” them to remove it?

I feel like logistic hullmods are okay to make a little overpowered since all their effects can be done with credits buying supplies, fuel, tugs and or cargo ships.

[Wyvern]

And also the logistics hullmods have some pretty major bonuses - at least right now, they may need to get reined in. But e.g. Surveying Equipment gives +100% to the survey cost reduction, and if every stock ship that had that got this, that'd be a bit extreme. Which, again, may be an indicator that the effect for those types of hullmods is too much, but it also seems pretty fun to be able to spend some story points to do this sort of thing - a hyper-efficient survey ship, a Dram that has majorly augmented fuel capacity, etc.

Huh, yeah, that seems maybe a bit off; I wouldn't have expected s-modding logistic mods to add further logistical benefits. It may be just me, but I typically do already s-mod logistics mods into my non-combat ships just to get more such mods installed on them.

Then again, what would be a reasonable combat effect for s-modded surveying equipment? How would that help you fight? I'm not sure. An ability to scan enemy vessels for weak points, granting a chance of a critical hit that does bonus damage? A wing of makeshift survey drones, or perhaps a single 'free' explorarium frigate that just spawns into battle as a non-commandable ally with an escort order set on the ship with s-modded survey equipment? Maybe surveying equipment s-modded lets you capture nodes more quickly (hm, that'd be an interesting one, more valuable on frigates than on larger ships...)

I'm not sure any of those are really good ideas, but they're what I can think of offhand.

[braciszek]

Builtin hullmods with penalties make no sense and are just musings to find a way to nerf them.

Builtin hullmods infer purpose designed and built functions. There is no penalty because the ship was designed around accommodating said hullmods.

Smods are trying to cram functionality into a modular system beyond its intended capacity. We can rationalize a penalty here.

[AcaMetis]

Then again, what would be a reasonable combat effect for s-modded surveying equipment?

Increased in battle visibility? Though IIRC High Resolution Sensors already does that...maybe combining the two could lead to an interesting combo?