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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 319111 times)

PixiCode

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1035 on: May 15, 2023, 11:56:11 AM »

1) Back to 4 large missile slots
2) Remove the special ship flag that lets its missile slots turn (in retrospect, that's a no-brainer to rein in any Cyclone concerns, the ship *has a special flag* that makes these an issue in the first place)
3) Shield efficiency to 0.8, the midline standard (Not sure if the Executor should be affected here, too or not - my impression is that the Executor is in a good place right now)
4) Movement speed to 35 (the Executor keeps it 50 and gets larger engine glows)
5) Possibly DP to 60; not sure if that's needed or not

At least, that's what I'm thinking at the moment. Could very well change, I'm not settled on any of it.

Executor larger engine glows, I'm all for this oh yes.

I think the executor could be nerfed to 0.8 shield efficiency, but be given a higher flux capacity as a result. This way weapons like autopulse fit better on it, at the cost of capacitors being less effective use of OP on the executor. Overall I think it would be a nerf, and the executor seems good enough to be able to 'afford' a nice little nerf. I agree that the executor really should keep its current speed though, and that the executor is largely in a good place. It's probably imbalanced in that it has access to HEF on 2 large energies which the player can abuse like nuts, but that never stopped the Doom from staying in its current form despite being exceptionally powerful in player hands, right? Hehe.

As far as the Pegasus goes, on top of the nerfs it currently has planned to make room for the 4 large missiles, you could try also giving it a smaller shield arc, say 120 degrees. This would keep its battleship identity, but introduce a new weakness to help accomodate the power of the 4 missile slots + FMR.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 12:04:57 PM by Chroma »
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Lucky33

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1036 on: May 15, 2023, 12:04:07 PM »


While doing early bounties (70-90K) I've noticed that very frequently (half the time and its clearly random) the resulting debris is of very low density. Like 0.2-0.3. Meaning that even with salvaging skill and two rigs I'm getting almost no resources. While in AI on AI fights I've never saw those low density debris fields. Is it a bug?

Not 100% sure, but debris density does depend on the amount of ships destroyed.


It was about a dozen military ships and several transports in each case. But the debris density changed wildly (from 0.2 to 0.8) from merely reloading the save. Purely random.
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Zanathkariashi

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1037 on: May 15, 2023, 12:05:59 PM »

Would be nice if full surveying a gas-giant would also scan it for Topography progress.

Should still keep the ability to do it with a scan if you want to if you lack the manpower/supplies to full survey it, but it is a minor annoyance having to remember to do that, since you'd think they'd full scan the planet as part of the survey process.
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Grievous69

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1038 on: May 15, 2023, 12:06:09 PM »

Executor larger engine glows, I'm all for this oh yes.

I think the executor could be nerfed to 0.8 shield efficiency, but be given a higher flux capacity as a result. This way weapons like autopulse fit better on it, at the cost of capacitors being less effective use of OP on the executor. Overall I think it would be a nerf, and the executor seems good enough to be able to 'afford' a nice little nerf. I agree that the executor really should keep its current speed though, and that the executor is largely in a good place. It's probably imbalanced in that it has access to HEF on 2 large energies which the player can abuse like nuts, but that never stopped the Doom from staying in its current form despite being exceptionally powerful in player hands, right? Hehe.
Not a bad idea, but the Executor definitely doesn't need a nerf (one that gives it nothing back). On a scale of 1 to 10 where 5 is perfectly balanced, Executor is on a comfortable 4 or 4.5. After all it costs 50 DP and Onslaught is 40.
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Grievous69

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1039 on: May 15, 2023, 12:18:28 PM »

I feel like Onslaught is the perfect battleship because we can easily balance other ships by asking "is it stronger than Onslaught?" If the answer is yes, then the ship in question is definitely broken.

EDIT: Previous comment was removed and now I look dumb.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 12:37:55 PM by Grievous69 »
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Dri

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1040 on: May 15, 2023, 12:29:41 PM »

Is anyone using the Hephaestus Assault Gun on anything to good effect? Anything at all?
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1041 on: May 15, 2023, 12:47:59 PM »

EDIT: Previous comment was removed and now I look dumb.

I saw it. I made notes.
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Tigasboss

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1042 on: May 15, 2023, 01:04:03 PM »

Why is aggressive ai still afraid to use missiles, i had an officer with missile specialization and had equiped 2 gorgons on a hammer with EMR,  and it almost lost against 3 small derelicts because it was so conservative with the missiles, all it had to do was shoot them because the derelicts have no armor.
When i took control of the ship it still had 12 missiles, it shot a grand total of 3.
I could make it reckless and see if its better but reckless officers usually suicide.
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Sly

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1043 on: May 15, 2023, 01:16:36 PM »

A sim test, but still thought provoking. Some excellent points.
I do not remember posting this exact quote.  Used search to find it but came up empty.

Apologies, I meant to reduce the wall I text I posted, by including my opinion of what you wrote instead of the entire body of text. I didn't mean to come off as misquoting you for my own benefit or being snarky. It really was helpful for me to think about what you were saying and perform the same test. It helped to change my perspective.

My experience with Cyclone is that you don't use it, because Hammer Barrage has higher DPS and by the time you run out of ammo, the enemy runs out of ships.
Also because Hammers are more reliable when Reapers out-of-the-box are easier to intercept and until this release were slow to accelerate.  Reaper needs ECCM for more speed and Missile Spec for more durability (and more shots).

Did not help there are too many ships with angled mounts that making using Hammers and Reapers difficult, and Gryphon is too fragile.  Only Champion is tanky enough and has the proper mount to use it, but even it needs mobility skills to get close to the enemy easily enough.

I do disagree with both you here, though. I think if you perform your original test with a Pegasus vs. two sim Onslaughts without MS, ECCM, or EMR, you'll find that the Cyclones are far superior to Hammer Barrages. You'll pierce the first Onslaught's armor and destroy it more quickly, and be left with more potential damage for your next target.

The math on this is pretty clear cut. The gulf between both weapons only grows larger as you augment your missiles further.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 01:33:05 PM by Sly »
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Candesce

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1044 on: May 15, 2023, 01:19:20 PM »

Is anyone using the Hephaestus Assault Gun on anything to good effect? Anything at all?
Yes.
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vladokapuh

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1045 on: May 15, 2023, 01:40:38 PM »

Is anyone using the Hephaestus Assault Gun on anything to good effect? Anything at all?
i tried on dominator and onslaught, still not a good gun imo
way too flux hungry, same as small assault gun
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TerranEmpire

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1046 on: May 15, 2023, 02:03:36 PM »

Well, one thing I wouldn't want is to have Pegasus at 60 DP. I think it's cool that we have a battleship at almost every DP "tier"(35/40/45/50/60 so far)

Also, the missile mounts rotate? Wat

Missile hardpoints normally don't, but on the Pegasus they do, thanks to a MISSILE_HARDPOINTS_ROTATE flag in the csv. Which is specifically so that dumbfire missiles/torpedoes are more usable there, which is kind of a problem, so, uh. Very much self-inflicted.

Sounds great! I would love to have the Pegasus back with those stats, including at 60 DP. It seems that lowering the top speed will also play into the vulnerability I mentioned without lowering shield efficiency, since essentially if you spend more time on the approach to target you are taking more incoming fire in the process.

You are the best <3

Glad nothing jumps out as being too "off" there! I'd like to avoid making it 60 dp if possible - it doesn't feel like that sort of ship to me, but, yeah. Alright. Let's see how this goes!

@Alex

What about raising the DP to 55?
It would be nice to have a 35,40,45,50,55,60 DP capital ship :)
And I think it looks great as a 55 DP ship. Not quite a Paragon or Radiant, but stronger than an Executor.
You could also advertise this 5 DP difference between the two skins as proof, that the Executor after all is kinda a failed project.
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Doctorhealsgood

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1047 on: May 15, 2023, 02:21:19 PM »

Thank you everyone for your feedback!

What kind of a situation do you have in mind?

This is a ship that still has only 50 top speed and is a capital so is a large target and can't mount SO. Currently, it can fly up to a station and tank the damage, but with a Conquest's shields that would no longer be realistic. The Conquest can't despite better mobility and better flux stats. (It can fight stations but needs to use its mobility and range or needs support).

If you put unstable injector on it, you will lose long range firepower, which is a very significant tradeoff if it no longer has the defenses for close quarters combat that it does now. If it is more vulnerable to flanking and enemy fire then it is unrealistic to just fly it into an enemy fleet, too.

I was thinking something along the lines of driving up to enemy battleships - while there's combat going on all around, more or less - and just deleting them one at a time. Or cruisers if they get in the way; I'm not picky :) It seems like it'd have enough mobility for that.

Thank you for doing all the tests, btw! I really appreciate it.

It looks like another hotfix is pretty likely, by the way, and I'd love to get another Pegasus adjustment into it. I tried improving the FMR AI - and did - but mostly what it does with a 2-large-slot-Pegasus is make it use the ammo faster; it's not as good as I thought it'd be.

I don't want to give it a really bad shield efficiency, though - it's still a battleship, and that starts to feel more like a battlecruiser philosophy or mobility and firepower rather than defenses and firepower. Right now I was thinking something like:

1) Back to 4 large missile slots
2) Remove the special ship flag that lets its missile slots turn (in retrospect, that's a no-brainer to rein in any Cyclone concerns, the ship *has a special flag* that makes these an issue in the first place)
3) Shield efficiency to 0.8, the midline standard (Not sure if the Executor should be affected here, too or not - my impression is that the Executor is in a good place right now)
4) Movement speed to 35 (the Executor keeps it 50 and gets larger engine glows)
5) Possibly DP to 60; not sure if that's needed or not

At least, that's what I'm thinking at the moment. Could very well change, I'm not settled on any of it.


While doing early bounties (70-90K) I've noticed that very frequently (half the time and its clearly random) the resulting debris is of very low density. Like 0.2-0.3. Meaning that even with salvaging skill and two rigs I'm getting almost no resources. While in AI on AI fights I've never saw those low density debris fields. Is it a bug?

Not 100% sure, but debris density does depend on the amount of ships destroyed.

So what's the point of those bounties in current version?

Those tend to show up in otherwise interesting (and profitable) systems, so it's good to think of them as signposts for where good salvage can be found.


Currently doesn't really feel like much of a tradeoff, slight nerf maybe. But the way those two are connected in my head is because I remember a thread where people were scared of the 4 large missile ship and started theorycrafting builds. That's where you came in and said how the Hurricane got reduced burst size but better tracking. I don't know in which thread this happened, but it was for sure something related to missile spam.

Perhaps the submunitions could stand to be a bit more maneuverable, then. The idea being to increase its floor and reduce its ceiling so that ECCM is not almost a straight up requirement.

Ahhh, this rings a bell, I remember! The Hurricane was changed before that point and not because of the Pegasus, but yeah, I can see how this would make it connected in your mind.
Oh wow that was quick! :D I haven't gotten my hands on either the pegasus or the executor but those sound like nice changes. Not sure if the executor needs a nerf as for the most part i have heard it is fine. As for the DP increase of the pegasus i dunno what to feel about it (Obviously i would prefer for not have the DP cost up) but if that and the other nerfs are price it has to be paid for it for it getting the four large missiles back i am more than happy to take the deal to be honest.

That aside the diktat questline just showed up in a terrible moment of lack of credits and struggling to keep afloat my fleet and needless to say the introduction and the upfront rewards made me go wow hard very nice.
Update: This man is way more generous than i initially thought oh my goodness.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2023, 04:22:17 PM by Doctorhealsgood »
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Draba

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1048 on: May 15, 2023, 02:23:13 PM »

Is anyone using the Hephaestus Assault Gun on anything to good effect? Anything at all?
Dominator and Invictus really like it.
Thought about it on non-XIV legion but sarissa+some heavy maulers+mark IXs feel much better than Heph+M kinetics, range matters a lot there. Maybe 1 Heph + 1 Mark IX, but the maulers+5 reapers are plenty of HE.
(related, both legions are brutal with the update)
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pairedeciseaux

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Re: Starsector 0.96a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1049 on: May 15, 2023, 02:51:43 PM »

Conquest also a great platform for Hephaestus, paired with Mark IX on each side.
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