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[Draba]

It doesn't have the range of a capital, why would it?

Advanced Optics.

Capitals can also get advanced optics.
At that point you might as well just say Scarab has capital range, if it installs tactical lasers it'll shoot further than an Odyssey with AM blasters

[Amoebka]

An extra 100% engine health and the sensor profile reduction is changed to 90% (from 50%).

Ah well, basically nothing. Even with 300% durability a single salamander will disable any engine below capital-sized ones.

[Wyvern]

An extra 100% engine health and the sensor profile reduction is changed to 90% (from 50%).

Ah well, basically nothing. Even with 300% durability a single salamander will disable any engine below capital-sized ones.

...Huh, my reaction was pretty much exactly the opposite: "oh, good, near-immunity to salamanders and extreme stealth? This might actually be competitive with s-modding things like ITU."

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Since when do we judge hullmods by their usefulness against the Circus Missile?

Capitals can also get advanced optics.

Only if they have beams(most don't) and do get Advanced Optics(most don't)

[Amoebka]

...Huh, my reaction was pretty much exactly the opposite: "oh, good, near-immunity to salamanders and extreme stealth? This might actually be competitive with s-modding things like ITU."

Guess you didn't do the math. Salamander is 1500 EMP damage (more with skills). Engines have 200/400/600/800 health (+-25% based on plume size). So unless you are a cruiser with SO / plasma burn active, or a capital, 300% health is still not good enough.

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Since when do we judge hullmods by their usefulness against the Circus Missile?

A single circus missile can and will eventually lose you an entire fleet against a late-game ordo fight.

[AcaMetis]

90% is enough to reduce a capital's sensor profile down to that of a frigate. I am definitely going to experiment with that.

I don't particularly want the core to provide *all* the items; that steals some thunder from exploration. I could even see removing the spool from Umbra and replacing it with story-point "improvements" at the spaceport. Hmm.

(Yeah, exactly.)

For what it's worth I do think this is a good idea. Giving a few core world industries story point improvements would give the player a chance to see their effects/the mechanic in action before building their own colonies, whereas relying on colony items to shore up shortcomings just leaves the colony open to having those items stolen and being right back at square 1.

[Alex]

Ah well, basically nothing. Even with 300% durability a single salamander will disable any engine below capital-sized ones.

By this argument, engine hitpoints don't matter at all, and since that's clearly not true...

Seriously, though, that doesn't make much sense. There are various ways of reducing EMP damage, other ways of boosting engine health/reducing the damage they take, there are indirect hits that deal less damage (which will e.g. happen when a Salamander hits a cluster of engines - it can't score a direct hit on all of them at once - or simply when it misses by a bit, which happens often), etc. And, that's before you even get into other damage sources.

[Amoebka]

By this argument, engine hitpoints don't matter at all

I do kinda feel that way though. Stray shots don't cause flameouts, with or without durability boosts. And when something deliberately targets engines, it tends to overkill by a ludicrous amount. Salamanders, claws/thunders, shades, doom mines - they all overkill by a lot.

[Karas-V]

Alex, is there a plan to add more factions in the future? Or the factions we have now is final?

[Alex]

I do kinda feel that way though. Stray shots don't cause flameouts, with or without durability boosts. And when something deliberately targets engines, it tends to overkill by a ludicrous amount. Salamanders, claws/thunders, shades, doom mines - they all overkill by a lot.

Hmm - in practical use, my experience is that RFC alone leads to a lot fewer flameouts. Some things still get through, of course. Maybe it's a difference in how piloting style or some such; all I can say is that this idea that engine health doesn't matter doesn't hold up for me *at all* when I'm playing. Having some kind of boost to it/EMP mitigation/etc feels essential.

Alex, is there a plan to add more factions in the future? Or the factions we have now is final?

Nothing I'd call plans, so:

[Amoebka]

Hmm - in practical use, my experience is that RFC alone leads to a lot fewer flameouts. Some things still get through, of course. Maybe it's a difference in how piloting style or some such

Most likely a difference in ships being used for these estimations. Capitals, especially low-tech ones that stack multiple anti-EMP measures naturally, tend to do well. But these are also the ships that care the least about engines to begin with. They can take a beating even if caught in a bad spot and wait for help. The ships that need flameout protetion the most are flanking destroyers and fast cruisers that rely on speed for survival. And those have too little base engine health (and engines in general) to benefit from multiplicative bonuses.

[Draba]

By this argument, engine hitpoints don't matter at all

I do kinda feel that way though. Stray shots don't cause flameouts, with or without durability boosts. And when something deliberately targets engines, it tends to overkill by a ludicrous amount. Salamanders, claws/thunders, shades, doom mines - they all overkill by a lot.

For me arcing EMP or medium/small enemies getting behind seems to be the main source of flameouts.
Since most low tech can kinda-sorta take an OP hit and the 10% hull is decentish anyway it might be an option on combat ships.
Not the biggest power boost but makes phase ships less "mandatory" for stealth/pirate gameplay.

[Alex]

Most likely a difference in ships being used for these estimations. Capitals, especially low-tech ones that stack multiple anti-EMP measures naturally, tend to do well. But these are also the ships that care the least about engines to begin with. They can take a beating even if caught in a bad spot and wait for help. The ships that need flameout protetion the most are flanking destroyers and fast cruisers that rely on speed for survival. And those have too little base engine health (and engines in general) to benefit from multiplicative bonuses.

Hmm. I get what you're saying, but that hasn't been my experience; it's felt essential from frigates on up to cruisers, depending.

[ApolloStarsector]

HYPE!

[Candesce]

It seems to me that Impact Mitigation's "engines and weapons take half damage" line is getting ignored, here, as is Resistant Flux Conduit's EMP protection. 2400 effective HP is enough to shrug off any Salamander that isn't rocking Elite Target Analysis, and that's the frigates.

Depending on which frigates you run, maybe you're not putting one or the other of those on them, but bluntly I've killed a lot of frigates 'cause their engines died, no Salamanders involved. The ships that most depend on their speed and maneuverability to survive really can't afford to lose it.