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[Grievous69]

Guys wait, please take it easy, I have a work assignment due in 8 days. Having a Starsector update drop right now would spell doom for me.

Thanks for the understanding.

[FooF]

I would love to be wrong but I don’t think we’re less than a week away.

And look, just because you lack the self-control to delay playing a new update doesn’t mean the rest of us should have to wait!  We’ll let you know how it goes…! 

[Thaago]

I'm going to lock this for now as it doesn't seem productive at the moment.

[Alex]

Updated the OP and unlocked the thread! This should be the last update prior to the release; up next is a bunch of playtesting. That's already been ongoing to a large extent, but: more.

[Shogouki]

Updated the OP and unlocked the thread! This should be the last update prior to the release; up next is a bunch of playtesting. That's already been ongoing to a large extent, but: more.

Woot!  Very awesome!

[memeextremist]

yay! hope it's ready soon o7

[Lawrence Master-blaster]

Hull-standard built-in hullmods that have an s-mod bonus can now be "enhanced" to unlock that bonus (...) Does *not* count against the maximum number of s-mods per ship

Interesting. Suddenly all these "minor" built-in hullmods are worth a second look because they should provide big bonuses when S-modded.

Squall: removed EMP damage

Oof. Well, it had it coming.

Militarized Subsystems: no longer provides the minor armor/flux bonus

So a straight-up nerf?

[Vanshilar]

Hmm there was some talk of Gryphons losing Expanded Missile Racks as a built-in and getting some OP instead, so that it's not too strong with the new s-mod changes (i.e. force the player to either spend the actual OP on EMR, or take the s-mod penalty if they want to s-mod it). Was that put in as well?

The Converted Hangar change is going to be interesting. I've been messing around with it and there are some combinations that seem to work really well. Broadswords (and probably the new Sarissa) with high-tech ships like the Apogee for example, or Flash with Eradicator, because those will only cost +2 DP to the ship but provide pretty good functionality for that ship (hard flux for the Apogee, massive strike damage for the Eradicator). Whereas expensive stuff like Xyphos and Daggers will more likely be put on ships that already have bays, i.e. "true" carriers, because they would add so much more DP otherwise, which seems like that's how it should be. In the end it did seem like FooF's suggestion of putting the DP cost as OP cost/5 was pretty much on the money balance-wise, from testing various ship configurations with and without CH against double Ordos. In some situations it'll lead to interesting considerations as well; for example, Gladius (6 OP) would only cost 1 DP while Broadsword (8 OP) would cost 2 DP, if the player is trying to manage the fleet's DP.

[Wyvern]

• Fleets supporting a station will not "harry" your fleet (causing a CR loss) when you disengage
• Newly learned hullmods with new tags will have those tags enabled by default in the "add hullmod" dialog
• Reduced occurrence of faster ships not letting quite all of their flux dissipate before re-engaging

Huzzah!

• Shield Conversion - Front:
  • Removed shield upkeep reduction
  • Reduced cost from 3/6/10/18 to 3/6/9/15

Hm, not a fan of this one. I used to use front shield conversion regularly, but it's less valuable in the current version of the game than it used to be (due to the change to elite helmsmanship no longer allowing zero flux speed boost with shields up, which means you can't pre-activate your shields and start combat with them fully unfolded), and this will make it less valuable again. I might still use it for ships that can get to full 360 degree shields with it... but probably not outside of that.

Still, I guess we'll see what it looks like with playtesting?

[Alex]

Militarized Subsystems: no longer provides the minor armor/flux bonus

So a straight-up nerf?

Hmm - technically, I suppose? I'm not sure anyone gets it for that, and it's a remnant of when Escort/Assault Package were in the game, so it's really just cleanup.

Hmm there was some talk of Gryphons losing Expanded Missile Racks as a built-in and getting some OP instead, so that it's not too strong with the new s-mod changes (i.e. force the player to either spend the actual OP on EMR, or take the s-mod penalty if they want to s-mod it). Was that put in as well?

I didn't end up putting that in, no. Didn't really seem necessary, given how minor the EMR build-in penalty ended up being.

The Converted Hangar change is going to be interesting. I've been messing around with it and there are some combinations that seem to work really well. Broadswords (and probably the new Sarissa) with high-tech ships like the Apogee for example, or Flash with Eradicator, because those will only cost +2 DP to the ship but provide pretty good functionality for that ship (hard flux for the Apogee, massive strike damage for the Eradicator). Whereas expensive stuff like Xyphos and Daggers will more likely be put on ships that already have bays, i.e. "true" carriers, because they would add so much more DP otherwise, which seems like that's how it should be. In the end it did seem like FooF's suggestion of putting the DP cost as OP cost/5 was pretty much on the money balance-wise, from testing various ship configurations with and without CH against double Ordos. In some situations it'll lead to interesting considerations as well; for example, Gladius (6 OP) would only cost 1 DP while Broadsword (8 OP) would cost 2 DP, if the player is trying to manage the fleet's DP.

Interesting, glad to hear it's working out at least in the initial testing! One detail: the +DP is rounded up, not rounded, so e.g. Gladius/Broadsword are both +2, while Flash is +3.

• Shield Conversion - Front:
  • Removed shield upkeep reduction
  • Reduced cost from 3/6/10/18 to 3/6/9/15

Hm, not a fan of this one. I used to use front shield conversion regularly, but it's less valuable in the current version of the game than it used to be (due to the change to elite helmsmanship no longer allowing zero flux speed boost with shields up, which means you can't pre-activate your shields and start combat with them fully unfolded), and this will make it less valuable again. I might still use it for ships that can get to full 360 degree shields with it... but probably not outside of that.

Still, I guess we'll see what it looks like with playtesting?

Honestly? That feels about right to me. What didn't feel right is taking the front shield conversion - and changing the nature of the ship - for the "side" benefit of the hullmod. Like, if you're taking the conversion, it ought to be because you want front shields, and not in large part because you want the shields to generate less flux, you know?

(What the OP cost of this should be is, of course, debatable!)

[Alex]

Is the Plasma Cannon deliberatly excluded from this list?
Seeing how it got the "pass-through-missile" treatment in 0.95a and would fit right in with the other "big-damage-projectile-weapons" in that list

It already did that and then some - its projectile just straight up passes through fighters, destroyed or not.

[Wyvern]

• Shield Conversion - Front:
  • Removed shield upkeep reduction
  • Reduced cost from 3/6/10/18 to 3/6/9/15

Hm, not a fan of this one. I used to use front shield conversion regularly, but it's less valuable in the current version of the game than it used to be (due to the change to elite helmsmanship no longer allowing zero flux speed boost with shields up, which means you can't pre-activate your shields and start combat with them fully unfolded), and this will make it less valuable again. I might still use it for ships that can get to full 360 degree shields with it... but probably not outside of that.

Still, I guess we'll see what it looks like with playtesting?

Honestly? That feels about right to me. What didn't feel right is taking the front shield conversion - and changing the nature of the ship - for the "side" benefit of the hullmod. Like, if you're taking the conversion, it ought to be because you want front shields, and not in large part because you want the shields to generate less flux, you know?

(What the OP cost of this should be is, of course, debatable!)

That's kindof fair? ...But only kindof, because for almost all ships it did feel like a playstyle choice: if I wanted the cost reduction, I'd install stabilized shields or front shield emitter, but not both.

The primary exception here is the Paragon, which has shields that are so expensive that it really was worth installing both - and that's even before you count in how reduced shield costs interact with its ship system.
(And occasionally the Aurora, though only occasionally - you'd only get full return on investment* from both hullmods' discount if you didn't have Field Modulation, and if you're piloting an Aurora you should really have Field Modulation. At which point it tended to come down to "Do I have OP to spare, and do I want to spend that on adding stabilized shields, or do I want to spend that on a flux distributor?")

I'd suggest either changing the OP cost to 2/4/6/10, making it significantly cheaper than omni shield conversion, or adding back in something like the omni shield conversion's 25% upkeep discount.

Edit: Or, maybe better: make both shield conversion hullmods cheap at 2/4/6/10 and remove omni conversion's upkeep discount.
Edit2: * To clarify, by "full return on investment" I mean "10 less flux per second per OP spent", i.e., equivalent to what you'd get by adding more flux vents. For the Aurora in particular, the first cost-discount mod was always a good deal (if you weren't using SO), but the second wasn't, and was thus very much a "well, maybe add it in if you've got OP to spare" situation.

[Alex]

Edit: Or, maybe better: make both shield conversion hullmods cheap at 2/4/6/10 and remove omni conversion's upkeep discount.

... that makes a lot of sense, I actually kind of forgot that the omni conversion had an upkeep discount. Not sure about the cost, though, 2/4/6/10 feels awfully low. (Not sure as in "actually not sure", not "I actively disagree about it".)

[Wyvern]

Edit: Or, maybe better: make both shield conversion hullmods cheap at 2/4/6/10 and remove omni conversion's upkeep discount.

... that makes a lot of sense, I actually kind of forgot that the omni conversion had an upkeep discount. Not sure about the cost, though, 2/4/6/10 feels awfully low. (Not sure as in "actually not sure", not "I actively disagree about it".)

Mm. Yeah, I can see that being "playtesting required".

On the other hand, I don't personally feel that front shield conversion is a strict upgrade: sure, sometimes it's nice from a personal playstyle perspective, because I don't have to manage shield angles on top of every other piloting task... but then again, salamanders exist, as do phase frigates. Even for ships that can get to 360 shields, you're trading off being able to quickly bring up shields where needed, since you do lose the zero flux boost for just having shields up and can't leave them on all the time like I used to.

Omni shields are a bit more arguable as being an upgrade - I do remember back in early Starfarer days where I considered the omni shield conversion to be near-mandatory for AI-controlled ships - but the AI is a lot better these days, and I don't find myself using it much in the current Starsector version.

[Grievous69]

There's no way Front Shield Conversion is getting nerfed... I'm not sure I ever caught myself thinking "man, this hullmod is bonkers". Let me guess, s-mod bonus gives it cost reduction?

Not liking this change mainly because I hate flying with Omni shields on 95% of the ships. I get that it's cheaper now but I don't see myself using this as often as before.

You say it feels wrong to grab a hullmod for the side effect, and let me tell you there's a huge amount of people who put RFC on almost every ship purely for faster vent speed (especially on flagships). I feel that's fine if the player really wants to maximize one part, or just enable his comfort playstyle.

EDIT: Also how did no one mention that Apogee now has a medium energy actually pointing forwards, that's big.